Not Happy with Performance

[Skyhound]

I hate these threads. Not because of the usual HP complaints, but how defensive the fanboys get about it. I don't know how many times I've read "If you want more HP, this isn't the car for you". Almost every professional reviewer has said that this car would be A LOT better with at least 40 more horse.

You know what is the car for you if you want a dedicated track car with good handling and more HP than the FR-S? The Honda S2000. When it was new, it went for about a price that was a bit higher than the BRZ now. It comes stock with around 240HP and is RWD. You can get it used for about half the price of a new FR-S. :/ Seriously guys, the FR-S is under-powered. Just face reality.

/rant

[rice_classic]

S2000 was MSRP @ at $34k in 1999. (or thereabouts).

[Trojan_SC]

Maybe trade it in for a WRX STI. I've tracked my car stock and it doesn't need more power for a track.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by whtchocla7e

You knew this before buying, right?

And people like this end up buying the car, and people who really want one and don't mind the low power, don't have one

[lantsalot]

Originally Posted by Skyhound

I hate these threads. Almost every professional reviewer has said that this car would be A LOT better with at least 40 more horse.

Saying the car would be better with 40 more horses and saying that you are not satisfied with the car becuase it only makes 200hp and can't beat sentra's that are trying to race you are 2 very, very different things.

[DarkSunrise]

You can't get everything for $25k. All the other cars you mentioned aren't anywhere near as good to drive as the FR-S. You need to figure out what your priorities are in your car.

Originally Posted by kombatlion

Whatever, you will get it when a sentra beat ur ass... unless you go to the track every week...

If drag-racing is high on your list of priorities, sell the FR-S and buy a 5.0L Mustang GT. Seriously. In the US, you can get one new for a couple grand more than the FR-S. For new cars, you can't beat its value for drag-racing. The WRX would be another good choice if you're not afraid to dump the clutch. No these cars don't drive like the FR-S, but you'll win most of your stoplight drag races, and that may be more important for you.

[CaptainSlow]

I hate these threads. Not because of the usual HP complaints, but how defensive the fanboys get about it. I don't know how many times I've read "If you want more HP, this isn't the car for you". Almost every professional reviewer has said that this car would be A LOT better with at least 40 more horse.

You know what is the car for you if you want a dedicated track car with good handling and more HP than the FR-S? The Honda S2000. When it was new, it went for about a price that was a bit higher than the BRZ now. It comes stock with around 240HP and is RWD. You can get it used for about half the price of a new FR-S. :/ Seriously guys, the FR-S is under-powered. Just face reality.

Originally Posted by rice_classic

S2000 was MSRP @ at $34k in 1999. (or thereabouts).

Exactly. AND it has no usable storage. AND it is a convertible-only (unless you paid big $$ for the aftermarket hard tops). AND gets nearly 10mpg less than the FRS. You can't compare used prices...just not a fair comparison...so many other used cars around the same price or cheaper, but that's not the point. To make it fair, you'd have to determine what the used price of a similarly-aged FR-S would be in 5-10 years...probably still much cheaper than a used S2000 is today.

Why not compare it to a Miata? Closer in MSRP, but still only a convertible, meaning no usable trunk space. It gets roughly the same gas mileage as the FRS, but has 30 HP less. Yet people still love them...drive them daily or take them to the track.

Simple fact is that the car was built with a purpose:

• Aggressive looks
• Rear wheel drive
• Entry-level sports car
• Great handling
• 25+ mpg combined

It was not built for straight line acceleration or top speed. If the engineers had sacrificed any of those items in the list for more acceleration/speed, then it wouldn't fit the role they wanted it to play, plain and simple.

Trust me...I am in no way, shape, or form a fan boy. I was actually one of the people saying "this thing will never get built" a few years ago. But facts are facts, and you can't deny them. You have to look at what the car's purpose is...where it was designed to excel and what had to be sacrificed to get it there. Simple fact is that if it had more HP it would have cost more and gotten worse fuel economy...in the end, just wouldn't have been the same car.

This argument is (taking it to an extreme) like saying "the Prius would be a fun car if it were AWD and had a normal turbocharged engine with 300awhp". Yeah, that's probably true...but it wouldn't fit the purpose it was built for.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by kombatlion

They are I have a nice picture will post later of the test I did on some good roads on some place call Guavate.

Hmmm Guavate ... (its a PR thing, I am not being rude here))

[kombatlion]

FRiSson, Thanks for that schooling you just gave me. I really appreciate the time you took to make me understand my FRS. Today for those words I just now truly know what do I want from my FRS. Thanks.

[kombatlion]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Hmmm Guavate ... (its a PR thing, I am not being rude here))

Jajaja everybody schooling me and you thinking about Lechon! Lol!

[kombatlion]

Not every body here was a fanboy but some were very rude and ass/;/$...

Half were nice, give me good advice and I will take it in consideration, I have exhaust, drop in filter, I will get the ecutek and leave it there.

Thanks to the ones that gave me giod advice I will hold my desire to drag people taunting me and invite them to Guavate, PR where my car is king.

[tomato86]

I came from a highly modded Evo so I know how slow this thing is. I gotta go S/C or turbo, no other way around it. BUT... the weight alone makes up for it. I plan on a Ti exhaust, lighter seats, etc.

Tune suspension first, that should be fun.

[Don Ivey]

Originally Posted by FRiSson

You need a little perspective Kombatlion. The post WWII period was the golden era for the development of true sports cars. I am not talking about exotic supercars here, but true sports car. A true sports car is a low-slung, compact, and lightweight vehicle that is a precision tool for driving. It does this by communicating information to the driver about the road that helps the driver do his/her job better. A true sports car is far more responsive than ordinary cars to the driver's commands. It brakes better, it steers more responsively and has has an engine that tells you exactly how to get the best out of it. True sports cars include such legendary cars as the Austin-Healey, Triumph, Corvette, Jaguar, Aston, and even, early Ferraris. These cars required sacrifice, their rides were rough and they required a high degree of focus and energy to drive. Typically, these cars weighed from 2,000-3,000 lbs and had engines that delivered between roughly 100 - 200 horsepower. They were also the focus of aerodynamic improvements that made them unusually aesthetic and beautiful to behold. They had fairly powerful motors for their size, but they never competed on horsepower or torque with the big American cruisers or exotics with 6 or 8 cylinder engines. The idea was that they had enough power to be fast, but not enough to do the straightline drag race stuff. That kind of car is the "muscle car" and they very rarely competed with each other.

Roughly 20 years ago, the market for true sports cars, muscle cars and exotics got kind of confused. The market for true sports cars shrunk, and most of the companies went out of business, muscle cars were less popular and the remaining sports car makers decided to pursue the super-wealthy market. In addition, there were very few buyers for cars that did not surround the driver with comfort and space. The result was that the sports car market split into two different arenas. The first was the development of the "sports sedan", a misnomer. Basically it is a comfortable sedan or coupe that has the handling capabilities of a sports car but lacks the true sports car spirit - a machine that requires the driver's full attention to get the best out of it. The other direction the sports car market went was into ever more exotic levels of technology. Today's supercars have astonishing horsepower, grip and handling, but are so complex that the driver is merely sharing some of the driving responsibilities with computers. They are more liked manned earthbound drones than true sports cars. Their buyers are no longer the masochistic sports cars fanatics of the past, but are more likely 90-hour-per-week financiers who want something that looks good to drive to their beach house on Sundays.

In the meantime, the US got back into the muscle car business, and the Japanese invented the "hot hatch". But neither of these should be confused with true sports cars. For the hot hatch is essentially a compact commuter car brilliantly transformed into something sporty, while the muscle car is still designed for drag strip performance, and while capable handlers, are still bulky, heavy machines.

The FR-Z was deliberately built as a throwback, or a return to the true sports car. The emphasis was on a lightweight low slung body, with a demanding, but highly responsive chassis. The FR-Z is a modernized, affordable version of the great sports cars of the past. Engine power is just about right. It is enough to communicate and respond vigorously to the driver, but not enough to let you lazily hit the throttle every time you need to speed up. This is a car that requires you to be engaged, to hear and respond to the gearing, and to listen to what the road and chassis is telling you.

So don't be surprised when FR-Z owners don't care about out-dragging Genesis Coupes, STI's or Mustangs, our bloodline goes back to a much older tradition, the noble and nearly-vanquished heritage of the true sports car.

All you say is pretty correct, except no mention of the Miata, which is, and always has been, a sports car like the early ones. The FR-S is very similar in philosophy to the Miata IMO. Though I never really wanted a Miata, and I definitely wanted (and got) an FR-S, and am very happy with it.

[bdbx18]

For the most part, my BRZ has sufficient power for my needs. A bit more would be nice but then the balance will be tipped and power will outcome the handling. I find I have to scrub speed off quickly because the higher handling limits boosts my confidence IMO way higher than it really should be. More power will just make it worse IMO.

However, that said, I agree with you that there are more than a few occasions I do wish there is more torque on tap. And nothing is worse than having the looks but not the backing. Especially when you have those pesky other cars and trucks breathing down your neck.

This is the conversation in the elevator today with the executive secretary. I love your new car, the red one, what is it? Oh it's a Subaru. It looks nice, is it fast? (I tried unsuccessfully to change the subject as I don't want my bosses to know I have a new car) It's pretty good but it's nothing fancy, it has a small 2 liter engine. Really, but it's at least a v-6 right? No, it's a 4-cyl, ok, I'll see you later ....

I hate to tell her but her Lexus GS will probably kick my ass to the way to the onramp.

I'll wait for the early adopter reviews and prices to drop before I go FI on mine.

Kombatlion, I would definitely go FI if you have the means and the environment to play with. PR looks like a lovely place and I plan on visiting it in the future.