Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[fenton]

Originally Posted by radroach

Hey quick question about battery conditioning.

Couldn't you just tie the compressor down to a vice clamp and run the system over and over again to condition the battery instead of having to do multiple WOT runs?

What would be the fun in that? That the best excuse to go WOT.

No it would not be advised to run the system full out with a vice clamp while the car is idling(your car would have to be running to recharge the system).

Driving around is the best thing for conditioning, your car can recharge the system while you are driving and the heat from the engine bay warms everything up.

[xxBrun0xx]

Has anyone driven this and a traditional SC 86 extensively? What are the biggest differences while driving?

If this is the wrong place to ask this, I apologize!

[Sojhinn]

I have. Down low the esc has more grunt (by a bit) but top end (kraftwerks) has way more power. Of course the other guy spent about 3x more then me so I'm good.

[FingR-S]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

I have. Down low the esc has more grunt (by a bit) but top end (kraftwerks) has way more power. Of course the other guy spent about 3x more then me so I'm good.

Grunt It sure has - today I stabbed the gas in 5th gear around 5k rpm and broke the rear tires (225 RE-11 A's) in the rain - be careful with this! - I left traction control on because there was a lot water on the ground. It sure wanted to spin out on me!
I was missing that feeling of being able to get the rear out in a power drift with decent tires. I can easily pitch the car much easier while stabbing the throttle quickly land engaging boost, then backing off. It's a load of fun and passing in 6th gear while cruising is a breeze. The batteries do take a little bit to condition as its mentioned.
The car does not feel like it dies out at high rpm, it retains the power up to 7500 fairly well. Perhaps in a track situation you'd want a little more peak power up top from a SC, but I would feel good about tracking this system - which i instead to do this next spring.
The power coming out of corners is what I love about this.:
I haven't installed the aux charger yet - will do that this weekend!

I'm gong from 225's to 245's - see if I like that setup now with ESC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PantsDants]

Have any of you tried tweaking the OFT ESC tune to accommodate a header other than the OFH? I recently switched to a catted P&L EL header, and I immediately noticed a ton of knock correction (~-4 degrees) in the 3000-3600 rpm, 0.6-0.7 g/rev range. I've since improved the situation by changing my intake cam phasing to match the Stg 2 EL map in these cells, but I'm still intermittently getting around -1.4 degrees in knock correction. I've tried retarding base timing by up to 1 degree in conjunction with these changes but it doesn't seem to have an effect in reducing it. AFR isn't doing anything wacky and my fuel trims are within 5%.

So I'm wondering if I need to further fine tune the AVCS, or further reduce base timing, or adjust something else entirely. Maybe add more fuel in this range? Are there any general rules of thumb when tuning for a catted header versus uncatted on this car? Any ideas appreciated, thanks!

[statlab]

Apologies if this has already been done. Could we have an updated rolling buy list on the first page of the thread? There was one by Fenton a few pages back (very helpful, thank you) and I understand there's been a little bit of movement. It'll help those of us who have a tight budget out a lot to know when we need to set aside the funds!

[07jazzrs5gt86]

Originally Posted by statlab

Apologies if this has already been done. Could we have an updated rolling buy list on the first page of the thread? There was one by Fenton a few pages back (very helpful, thank you) and I understand there's been a little bit of movement. It'll help those of us who have a tight budget out a lot to know when we need to set aside the funds!

I would say just start saving or if you already have save the $$$ put it aside for a few months so when rob is ready to ship the kit rob or fenton will 1st notify the top few inline if they are still interested before proceeding futher.
Also note that even if you are the top 5 inline it still might take awhile since this isn't his full time business and sometimes the delay in parts can be very frustrating on both ends.
Just hope he have enough parts and time to make more kits

[Gums]

Seems everyone is getting into ESC's. (stolen from the open source thread)

http://press.kia.com/eu/press/produc...ld%20premiere/

[l0aded]

Any ETA on the next batch? Or at least an order of who's up to buy?

[imom]

I'm joining this thread real late and i don't want to read 356 pages worth of information... I did do some search, but didn't see.

This is a bit off topic, but would it be a good idea to get a dual high output alternator to replace the stock unit and then remove the stock battery from the front and remove the spare tire in the back and put some nice battery network in the spare tire well? Even if the larger and more batteries increased weight, it's weight in the right area to balance it out from the stock 53/47 to closer to 52/48 or 51/49. In the end, may weigh the same or slightly more with the spare tire removed, but the weight is still in the back and get more than 90 seconds.

The other thing about the system and I may have read this wrong, but it appears to be a "ON/OFF" digital system instead of a linear or logarithmic boost and can be kinda "always on or mostly on". So this isn't a system to go WOT, but instead like a regular FI system and it kicks in earlier..maybe 2 to 3 PSI at 1500 RPM and full boost 5 PSI at 3500 RPM. Instead of an "on" switch at the gas pedal, perhaps read the throttle response via OBD?
Would be the closer to a full time FI system instead of the current ESC. I'm sure the cost would bump it up some more in battery cost and new alternator...but to me seems like a nice "stage II" kit. Shifting more weight would be a nice plus to me... I would speculate that it wouldn't affect the behavior of drifting or the natual behavior of the car prior.

The dual alternator is one to charge the normal car electronics and the other dedicated to the ESC system.

All these comments made with zero knowledge about the design of the system.... just looking at the system, these are some of the things I would investigate so thought I ask. So far it looks like a very nice system and interesting way of improving the torque that's desperately needed in this car.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by imom

This is a bit off topic, but would it be a good idea to get a dual high output alternator to replace the stock unit and then remove the stock battery from the front and remove the spare tire in the back and put some nice battery network in the spare tire well? Even if the larger and more batteries increased weight, it's weight in the right area to balance it out from the stock 53/47 to closer to 52/48 or 51/49. In the end, may weigh the same or slightly more with the spare tire removed, but the weight is still in the back and get more than 90 seconds.

The other thing about the system and I may have read this wrong, but it appears to be a "ON/OFF" digital system instead of a linear or logarithmic boost and can be kinda "always on or mostly on". So this isn't a system to go WOT, but instead like a regular FI system and it kicks in earlier..maybe 2 to 3 PSI at 1500 RPM and full boost 5 PSI at 3500 RPM. Instead of an "on" switch at the gas pedal, perhaps read the throttle response via OBD?
Would be the closer to a full time FI system instead of the current ESC. I'm sure the cost would bump it up some more in battery cost and new alternator...but to me seems like a nice "stage II" kit. Shifting more weight would be a nice plus to me... I would speculate that it wouldn't affect the behavior of drifting or the natual behavior of the car prior.

The dual alternator is one to charge the normal car electronics and the other dedicated to the ESC system.

All these comments made with zero knowledge about the design of the system.... just looking at the system, these are some of the things I would investigate so thought I ask. So far it looks like a very nice system and interesting way of improving the torque that's desperately needed in this car.

To my knowledge I am the only one currently running a relocated starter battery, to fit more dump pack batteries for a longer run time. I haven't tested run time because I don't have that much road. I went 0 to 130 on the interstate before I had to slow down for traffic and by the time I got back down to 70 I was already charged back up to about 27.0V out of my max of 28.6. (true this was at about 3/4 of a mile). (EDIT, those numbers were on Dump 1.0, before I upgraded, and also on a new set of batteries that were not even broken in yet) If you use this system for longer than it is able to sustain power it can only be done on a track. Link to my setup: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69409. You would be fighting the law of depreciating returns by adding more batteries to the system. I believe at the dump 2.0, the system output is limited by the motor controller. You can increase the length of use, but you would never find a place to use it that long. There have been discussions about stepped boost, but due to the complexity and added cost, you would be better off buying a traditional Forced Induction system. The system would have to be completely redesigned, and It would likely require a custom tune, which would take away from it's plug & play nature. As for the dual alternator, it is unnecessary. The system does not draw any charge from the alternator during operation, and the charge speed is limited not by the alternator but by the motor controller and/also the available Alt Charger upgrade. When a load is applied to the alternator it becomes more difficult to turn, this drags on the engine reducing power output. If the system charged while in operation, it would end up being a less efficient version of a traditional supercharger. As the ESC has no parasitic drag It will create more power at 5psi than a traditional Super would at the same pressure. I hope this answered some of your questions.

[Thatruth2001]

Electric Turbochargers Forecast To Boom For Gas-Mileage Gains
Green Car Reports By Stephen Edelstein

Carmakers are increasingly turning to downsized turbocharged engines as a way to increase fuel efficiency without compromising power output.

Now, a new technology promises to increase their efficiency even further.

Electric turbochargers offer added flexibility because they can produce more power at lower engine speeds--and they're receiving considerable attention.

RELATED: Efficiency, Performance From Audi's Electric Turbo Prototype

According to a recent Navigant Research blog post, electric turbochargers could be the "next big thing" in fuel efficiency.

Traditional turbochargers use exhaust gases to spin a turbine that drives more air into an engine's combustion chambers, but the exhaust has to reach a certain pressure for them to work effectively.

Audi RS 5 TDI concept
Audi RS 5 TDI concept
Waiting for a turbocharger to spool up produces a sensation of "turbo lag" that engineers have worked to eliminate since turbos entered widespread use.
The electric turbocharger cures this problem by using an electric motor to drive the turbine, allowing the turbo to spool up far more quickly.

This not only results in more responsive power delivery, but also allows for increased operation at lower engine speeds--increasing fuel efficiency.


Valeo--which says it will supply an electric turbo to an unnamed automaker beginning in 2016--says these devices can also be more precisely controlled, allowing for shorter bursts of extra power when needed, and potentially improving efficiency by 10 percent.

Since electric turbos doesn't require the plumbing normally needed to route exhaust gases to the turbine, they could also free up some space in the quite-cramped engine bays of modern cars.

Audi RS 5 TDI concept
Audi RS 5 TDI concept
This list of perks has attracted the interest of several carmakers.
Audi demonstrated an electric turbocharger on a diesel-powered version of its RS 5 coupe earlier this year, and is expected to launch the technology on the SQ7--a sporty version of the next-generation Q7 SUV--in 2016.

Volvo demonstrated a triple-turbocharged four-cylinder engine--with one electric and two conventional turbos--but hasn't discussed any production plans for the technology.

Even Ferrari has suggested it may augment a future supercharged engine with an electric turbocharger for added responsiveness.

_______________________________________________

[WNDSRFR]

Here is a related article.
http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...rger-explained


It sounds like they are using the electric supercharger to drive two turbochargers. Doesn't seem like it would work but apparently it does.

[zc06_kisstherain]

I still havent received pm back from Robert for putting me on list.