Evo Magazine - GT86 better than BRZ

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

Ummm - no. What he actually said was "Understeer, so rare in the BRZ, is never far away." He is not saying it has steady-state understeer, just that understeer is closer to being realized in the FR-S, ie that it takes less to invoke it.

Looks like I pulled the trigger on the right Subiyota.

Nope, it's poorly written, but read it again:

"Understeer, so rare in the BRZ, is never too far away."

He says understeer, which is so rare in the BRZ, is never too far away in the FR-S.

BRZ = understeer is rare
FR-S = understeer never too far away (i.e., understeer)

I'm not saying I agree with the author, but it's what he's (very poorly) written.

[Hanzo]

Manual vs auto period.

[brewksy]

Originally Posted by Hanzo

Manual vs auto period.

This. Any qualifications they make beyond this fact (especially when it comes to understeer/oversteer that can be very different when in the wrong gear) is just trash journalism.

I don't remember Evo sucking this bad when Chris was writing for them. I guess it goes to show that running a mag that panders to enthusiasts is far different than being an enthusiast writing to enthusiasts.

[JDM_Badge]

This review is worthless. While the spring rates and dampers are different, you also have to take into account the weight and gear ratio differences between the auto and closer ratio manual. Apples and oranges. When has the automatic version of any low power car ever been favorable on a track with a skilled driver? On the subject of the interior, I plan on looking down the road and concentrating on driving so I really don't care personally. I am getting the radio not the nav unit specifically so I do not have to look away from the road to operate it while moving, and I appreciate the uncluttered wheel.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Nope, it's poorly written, but read it again:

"Understeer, so rare in the BRZ, is never too far away."

He says understeer, which is so rare in the BRZ, is never too far away in the FR-S.

BRZ = understeer is rare
FR-S = understeer never too far away (i.e., understeer)

I'm not saying I agree with the author, but it's what he's (very poorly) written.

Look, this is really simple - let me spell it out for you. "Never far away" DOES NOT EQUAL "steady-state". The first is potential, the second is present. Basic logic and understanding of vocabulary. An example to clarify: "The snow is never far way" means the snow is always nearby, but says nothing about its current presence at the speaker's location; "the snow is steady-state" means it is snowing here and now.

[alluringreality]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Basically, if you want power oversteer get the FR-S. If you want high speed turn-in and neutral handling get the BRZ. Or just do what most people here will do and tune the suspension to your own liking.

I think this is quite sensible and in line with the article. The video of Randy Pobst driving both cars seems to support the position, and in both cases he was driving a manual.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

Look, this is really simple - let me spell it out for you. "Never far away" DOES NOT EQUAL "steady-state". The first is potential, the second is present. Basic logic and understanding of vocabulary. An example to clarify: "The snow is never far way" means the snow is always nearby, but says nothing about its current presence at the speaker's location; "the snow is steady-state" means it is snowing here and now.

I hate to break this to you but... a description that a chassis understeers IS a description of its steady-state cornering characteristic.

What else would it be describing, lift-throttle or power-on behavior?

When the author says understeer is never far away, he's saying (1) at the limit of its grip, the chassis will understeer, and (2) the limit is low so you encounter understeer often. Hence, understeer is never far away.

Again, I don't agree with the author, but there's really no other way to read that sentence.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

It's just another review who thinks oversteer = fun. If you continue reading,

Basically, if you want power oversteer get the FR-S. If you want high speed turn-in and neutral handling get the BRZ. Or just do what most people here will do and tune the suspension to your own liking.

Yes, I think this reading is exactly right. I don't think the author is necessarily correct, but I think that's what he's trying to say.

[315FR-S]

to the numbers guys who are promoting the twins competition because they are "slow"....there will always be someone faster.

i agree manual>auto i'm still on the fence as to which car i want, despite the sig.

once i figure that out i get to try to choose a color for this car. its like trying to understand women....impossible.

i liked evo up until these reviews. they seem to be stirring the pot, trying to get things riled up. i never realized how much they valued hp/tq over everything else, that was their only demerit (iirc)

[brianbot5000]

Pretty sure Evo is out to sell magazines. And what better way than to take two of the most talked about cars, and then write provocative, controversial reviews that fly in the face of all other reviews or gets the enthusiast crowd riled up? We all fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

[Jordo!]

They liked this car because it's less composed (more playful?)-- I don't think the major issue here is the trans, although they clearly disliked the auto.

They still dislike the lack of grunt, and that is a common (and fair) criticism.

Anyway, most folks will swap out the factory suspension soon enough anyway, so it's back to choosing which brand/bumper design you prefer.

[PERRIN_Jeff]

There is always someone out there that has to hate.... EVO..

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Auto vs. manual

Ding! I haven't driven the Auto, but give me a break! The slushy auto is never going act like a manual in the corners. The loss of throttle control is gone, so of course some of the fun on an off modulation of throttle is gone. DUH!

Originally Posted by faz1

My GT86 is due next month

My wife drives a new Cooper S

Originally Posted by Memphis

I wouldn't put the Mini out of its misery just yet.

By far the Mini is faster car in in striaght line and maybe coming out of the corners. There is wayyyyyyy more TQ in a Cooper S and WAYYYYYY more TQ in a JCW. This car is not even close to the same. The BRZ is still more fun to drive. Its not as twitchy steering wise, or power application wise. The seating position blows its doors off. I may not be able to fit 4 people (two normal and to very tiny people), but who cares! In a perfect world, buy both!

Yes, I own both at the moment and my STI, so I can compare.

Originally Posted by 86'd

And about the Mini S being more fun, I don't know about that. Granted I had an auto, but it had problems. That's a big factor that NEVER plays into a car review. BMWs and cars like the Mini always get high marks, but when it comes down to it will you own it for more than 5 years?

Mini = NO
STI = YES
BRZ = YES!! (unless there is an STI version)


I really thought I was done with the RWD world after my 135i (one tire fire). Even after driving a couple of Vettes, i really thought, I would never buy a RWD car. This car really got me excited about RWD because it was so different. The price was good, the features were great and it wouldn't be full of problems and glitches like a BMW product.

In the end the buyer who gets these cars will be happy. If they have to have the "funner" oversteering car, then a larger rear swaybar might be in their future. At this point, FR-S or BRZ all comes down to style, price, features you want. Let the aftermarket help drive you to change how the car will handle.

Also, what gives with the interior! Its very nice, clean, simple. The only thing they can complain about is the afte-rclock. I mean after-thought. I mean clock.

[YukiHachiRoku]

EVO are a bunch of trolls.

[Jeffie]

This thread has to be the biggest fanboi laugh on the internet. EVO mag is the least biased, most objective car magazine on the planet. It doesnt have to be fast for them to like it, just maintain their ethos, 'The thrill of driving'. They have plenty of underpowered slow boxes with 5 stars...

There is no conspiracy, no trying to be provocative to sell magazines, the reviewer just didnt like it and thats it.