2014 Ford Fiesta ST vs 2014 Subaru BRZ

[s0sl0w]

Originally Posted by Frost

You two are hilarious in your elitism with RWD.

When it comes to shopping, the general public cares about the bottom line and if both cars cost nearly the same, they will get lumped together. In the end, both cars are about giddy fun factor and not RWD vs FWD.

No one I know who has driven the ST versions of the Focus or the Fiesta have said they hated it. It's a very fun car.

As for reliability? Only time will tell...

lol

I've driven both and own the BRZ. At the end of the day the BRZ is a sports car and the FiST's and FoST are hot hatches. So if you want a sports car then buy the 86, a hot hatch pick one of the ST's.

If all you want is a fast car buy something used and cheap and get to wrenching.

EDIT: If i was only keeping any of the three cars for 3 years or less I'd likely get the ST products. The 86 is more... timeless.

[thill]

Originally Posted by s0sl0w

lol

I've driven both and own the BRZ. At the end of the day the BRZ is a sports car and the FiST's and FoST are hot hatches. So if you want a sports car then buy the 86, a hot hatch pick one of the ST's.

If all you want is a fast car buy something used and cheap and get to wrenching.

EDIT: If i was only keeping any of the three cars for 3 years or less I'd likely get the ST products. The 86 is more... timeless.

Ford's are bad cars typically to buy short term unless you lease. They typically don't hold their value as well as a Subaru or a Scion and Ford is already offering crazy incentives and discounts on the Focus ST. I am sure the Fiesta ST is not far behind.

[s0sl0w]

Originally Posted by thill

Ford's are bad cars typically to buy short term unless you lease. They typically don't hold their value as well as a Subaru or a Scion and Ford is already offering crazy incentives and discounts on the Focus ST. I am sure the Fiesta ST is not far behind.

I really wasn't talking about the economics of any of the 3.

Because buying a car based on those numbers means you're not buying any of these. Good news though, there's a Camry or Accord calling your name with excellent residual value.

What a terrible metric for determining a car purchase. True definition of "Transportation Appliance"

[thill]

Originally Posted by s0sl0w

I really wasn't talking about the economics of any of the 3.

Because buying a car based on those numbers means you're not buying any of these. Good news though, there's a Camry or Accord calling your name with excellent residual value.

What a terrible metric for determining a car purchase. True definition of "Transportation Appliance"

Well I was just pointing out that anyone who buys a Ford economy car with the intention of keeping it three years or less is a moron.

[s0sl0w]

Originally Posted by thill

Well I was just pointing out that anyone who buys a Ford economy car with the intention of keeping it three years or less is a moron.

Or has more money than you

[thill]

Originally Posted by s0sl0w

Or has more money than you

People that have throw away money are not buying Ford econoboxes to drive for a couple of years. They are buying Vette's, GTR's, Cayman's, etc.

Do you really think the target demographic for someone buying a Fiesta ST is $200K+ a year?

[s0sl0w]

There are plenty of people making 30-50K a year who buy a new to them car every 3-5 years. And those of them that are enthusiast will probably consider the the ST's because whether you want to admit it or not they are quite fun to drive and some people really aren't hung up on a few thousand over the course of a few years if it means getting a car they enjoy.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time grasping that concept. Hell if I had to pick 1 car to do it all over the next 3-5 years, no using the S/O's car or vehicles of friends/family, I doubt I would have picked up a BRZ. It's great and I love it, but I bought knowing it wouldn't be a daily for more than few years and then it get retired to "toy" status while something else fills the DD slot (In my dreams that'd be a FiST actually). But some people are forced to choose one vehicle to do it all be it financials or simply space to keep two cars. For those people the ST's look mighty appealing.

[thill]

Originally Posted by s0sl0w

There are plenty of people making 30-50K a year who buy a new to them car every 3-5 years. And those of them that are enthusiast will probably consider the the ST's because whether you want to admit it or not they are quite fun to drive and some people really aren't hung up on a few thousand over the course of a few years if it means getting a car they enjoy.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time grasping that concept. Hell if I had to pick 1 car to do it all over the next 3-5 years, no using the S/O's car or vehicles of friends/family, I doubt I would have picked up a BRZ. It's great and I love it, but I bought knowing it wouldn't be a daily for more than few years and then it get retired to "toy" status while something else fills the DD slot (In my dreams that'd be a FiST actually). But some people are forced to choose one vehicle to do it all be it financials or simply space to keep two cars. For those people the ST's look mighty appealing.

You said "3 years or less".. Which is what I responded to with less potentially being one year or less. Now it is 3-5 years?

[WolfpackS2k]

Anyone making under 50k that buys a new car every 3 years is an idiot or enjoys living a very frugal lifestyle.

[s0sl0w]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Anyone making under 50k that buys a new car every 3 years is an idiot or enjoys living a very frugal lifestyle.

Also this. But there's no accounting for financial idiocy.

[86viper]

It comes down to this

For many, the fact any of the hot hatches are FWD immediately slashes them from contention.

When looking for a new car, i drove all the hot hatches, the GTI, Meagane265, Focus ST and a few others. I also drove a WRX, a MX5 and a few other things.

None even came close to matching the driving dynamics of the 86, not even close. Yes there is lots of fancy electronics on FWD cars these days to help, but you can feel it from a mile away. Give me RWD, a 6spd Manual, No electronic aids and a gun chassis and i'm happy.

Power is easy to make (hell e85+exhaust and intake makes it a 260hp car for a $2000)

Chassis balance is much much harder and that is where the toybaru has hit the nail on the head. you can drift it around every corner, you can track it, you can autox, you can hillclimb, you can build a drag car.

The fact its compared to so many different cars, in so many different price brackets, in so many roles shows just how good it is.

It has its limitations for sure (its as practical as a screen door on a submarine)
If you have a family you really cannot have it as your only car
Its low, people don't see you in traffic

But these are really minor points.

Anyone who is cross shopping a Hot hatch with a BRZ/86 and picks a FWD over the best chassis available sub 50k is crazy.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by 86viper

Anyone who is cross shopping a Hot hatch with a BRZ/86 and picks a FWD over the best chassis available sub 50k is crazy.

Well technically, the two cars shouldn't be cross shopped whatsoever. Hot hatches are for people who like streetable power and need the cargo space. I'd choose MazdaSpeed3 if I needed to haul people and items around with a tubo kick. I don't think there's a better car for that in its segment. Focus ST maybe.

Frs/brz competes against gencoupe 2.0turbo, miata, and Civic Si. It's number one and above all those which is why I bought one.

Hot hatches and frs/brz cater to two totally different demographics. Both have their pros and cons. I wanted a sports car. Frs! Not a "sporty" car.

[Boxer486]

Lol, one of the selling points for me was actually practicality. The 86 actually has more cargo space than anything in my fleet including my Legacy GT (seats don't fold down). I can haul bikes and stuff from IKEA and Home Depot. If I need more I'll get a Raptor.

For me it's the best blend of fun, sport, economy, cargo, comfort and practicality I've ever had. Anything else out there atm with those traits is just too soft or uninvolved for my tastes. And forget turbos, lag sucks and is annoying. I don't have the patience for spooling on a daily basis.

[swpbrz]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Well technically, the two cars shouldn't be cross shopped whatsoever. Hot hatches are for people who like streetable power and need the cargo space. I'd choose MazdaSpeed3 if I needed to haul people and items around with a tubo kick. I don't think there's a better car for that in its segment. Focus ST maybe.

Frs/brz competes against gencoupe 2.0turbo, miata, and Civic Si. It's number one and above all those which is why I bought one.

Hot hatches and frs/brz cater to two totally different demographics. Both have their pros and cons. I wanted a sports car. Frs! Not a "sporty" car.

No one here seems to understand there are a lot of young guys ONLY looking for the most fun toy to drive around in their price range. I certainly cross shopped all these cars. they aren't totally different demographics. They are mostly people looking for fun cars. Both are fun in different ways so lets compare...