Forget it... I'm doing springs and shocks... not coilovers...

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by JoeBoxer

Sorry my thought was just that the solid 22 was too much on its own, if he is set on the whiteline I would go with the 20mm. I'm considering your front bar myself as I think it's a good option for most of us that don't need a bigger rear bar.

I think we are actually on the same page... it just didn't come across that way to me. But with this car, I gotta say if you are gonna miss, I'd rather miss a little stiffer than not... UNLESS someone has no plans for any kind of negative camber to speak of in front that will make the car a little tighter anyway.

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

@Sam Strano On this car, do you think it's best to tune the suspension using the stock sways as much as possible and then adjust the sways to fix any deficiencies with your desired spring rates? I've heard varying opinions on how to utilize sways in tuning but one that made a lot of sense to me was to save them for fine tuning at the end so that they a. don't cover up poor front/rear balance in the springs and dampers and b. don't cause inside wheel lift because the sway is too strong for the spring rate for serious driving.

Thoughts? For a street car sways are a good way to bump up the handling feel without sacrificing a large amount of comfort (Flatter cornering with the same spring rates) but at 10/10's this likely isn't the best way to tune.

Cheers
Nathan

Both springs and bars add wheel rate, they are both effective tools. If you are going to get cheap on dampers, then honestly the bars become more critical, mostly the front here. I really don't think you want a bigger rear bar to speak of, but that has a LOT to do with the balance of springs and bars you are going to run.

I think it should be done as a package as much as possible. And I try and look at a lot of details. For instance I will always want to run some negative camber up front, most will want to put you back to stock spec. That makes the car tighter, so you tend to see bigger rear bars and springs. And because the car is light it's not hard on tires even with pretty aggressive alignment... Now if you don't want to run a bit more aggressive than stock, ok then I take that into consideration when thinking about springs and bars.

I don't want a big rear bar on this car. I have on many occasions in and out of my garage, turning into parking lots, etc had the inside rear wheel hang when it doesn't on pretty much any other car. Last thing you need there is more roll stiffness IMHO. I do like to get some more roll stiffness from the front bar, it's very effective at keeping the car flatter and the inside rear more loaded and it helps keep the spring rates down from insane.

Now sure, you could choose to run a mega front bar, and soft springs... but when you have stiff rears it can (and does) throw the ride frequency out of whack... to some degree the FR-S has this issue stock more than the BRZ due to the softer front springs, where is sometimes hobby horses a bit. That's the front and rear not being in sync. Better dampers help and adjustable dampers help that much more because at least you can do some tuning there, but dampers don't change the spring or wheel rate.

I've always run a bit more front bar than most of my competitors in every car I've ever run and won in. All front engine, all RWD, all with diffs, a few with Torsens even. Sometimes I run the biggest bar for a car, but not always. depends on the car. I don't run the biggest bars around for an S197 Mustang up front. I didn't run the absolute biggest Camaro bar... but in both cases I ran one step down from that. I am monkeying with a HUGE bar on the Corvette right now (38mm) vs. the solid 35 I know works for sure on it. The Z06 preferred a hollow 33mm, stock is a hollow 31.

I'm a tester, I look at options. I also want to know what the driver thinks about balance, and about 100 other details. Bear in mind unlike a some places that make their own stuff, I also carry other options, because I know that one answer can't be the best answer all the time.

Anyway, I'm more about the setup. Yes I sell parts, but I don't work on a typical commission and since I own my place I'd rather think things out and work with you on a setup, even if it takes a few steps. We end up with a better result that is tuned along the way based on actual findings, and *hopefully* people appreciate I'm not trying to sell them on every single thing. Sometimes this backfires on me because some want to rush and I guess think I won't sell them the parts they want... I will do that too, but if you want my opinion I'm going to give it to you. That's just how I am.

Does that help? If it doesn't well, it's probably because a phone conversation is my preferred method of discussion... talking makes things make more sense than email or forums to be honest.

[Sam Strano]

FWIW, I'm considering developing a very small (like stock range) rear bar that's adjustable to offer a little balance fine tuning. The ones out now I think are just too much. My front bar isn't adjustable for two reasons. It's a tight fit (already ran into that issue) and if you look at how the angle of the arm is you don't really shorten the lever arm much like you would on a straight arm bar, so I decided for me it wasn't worth it. But, I know that adjustment would sell me more bars. Just one of those things that I had to make a decision on, and those are the reasons why. You'll note my bar is hollow and that's harder to bend than solid so it's a tougher fit to do that up front than with a heavier solid bar.

[JoeBoxer]

Thanks for all the info Sam I'm working on trying to get my suspension set up a little better, not really happy with my spring choice so trying to figure out if I can "fix" it with a front sway or if I need to just start from scratch with better springs and dampers.