FT-86 v.s. MX-5

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Sully

I was about to say 'even then, if it's a light car with a well matched axle-EG a Lotus/Caterham 7 type car, along with good shocks and decently sprung it might not be too bad. Could even have passable comfort.'

Then I realized I was saying 'Caterham' and 'comfort' in the same sentence and it wasn't a criticism.
to myself.

I think the mustang does alright

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Fun, small, light, cheap. Those 4 properties embody the Miata and FT-86 concept. If none of those properties are of interest to you, then yes, you're right in that there is no valid comparison.

True. I am probably being short sighted again...

Originally Posted by 4agze

if next years MX-5 is the lighter version like what mazda is claiming to do, FT86 will have a hard chance of winning 5 lap battle in tsukuba hot version style lol

If the ND MX-5 is any lighter than the NC, it's probably going to have the same or even less power. The main guy behind it was pretty disappointed that the MX-5 grew not just in size and weight but in power. One of the rumors was that the ND was getting a 1.8L or possibly a 1.6L again.

Admitably, I was disappointed early on that Toyota/Subaru got caught up in building a high output boxer instead of focusing more on balance and handling. There is a reason they blew the R&D budget on this car and it doesn't have anything to do with the suspension or weight distribution. Now if they want to build a more focused car they need to start over. Hence the Naruse RWD city car aka babyFT-86.

Not to mention if they want to go the other way with big HP they need a new engine! lol don't care.

Originally Posted by fatoni

I think the mustang does alright

Eh? That's neither here nor there.

[val_lixembeau]

Originally Posted by Marrk

^^val, what's the weight on this car? 2700 lbs? How is 2700 lbs. "lightweight"?

You guys are more tolerant than I am. For me, "lightweight" starts at 2500 lbs. and goes down from there.

Still, numbers is numbers. They can't tell you everything. How the car handles is what matters.

You are entirely correct. For a car that is close to the same size but designed five years later, I would have thought the FR-S would be lighter than the Miata.

That being said, for affordable, new cars there aren't any other choices. The Lotus is out of my price range by quite a bit. Also, I used to have a neighbour who owned one as a weekend car, and he said it would be pretty hard to live with as a daily driver.

I don't think it's "handling" necessarily that will be determine how good the car is, but more driver feedback. In other words, can you feel what the tires are doing through the steering, does your subconscious know how much torque you have or how fast you're going because of the engine note, do the revs zing up immediately if you flex your toes etc... I don't need super high skidpad numbers or anything like that.

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by spin9k

Shame Mazda never widely sold that MX-5 coupe, as I favor that style. Beyond that, they seem to have always been 'stuck' (some call it pure) as far as changing the car to suit different customer wants. Beside making it bigger and heavier over the years(next gen will return to light), they steadfastly refuse to turbo/SC the engine (except one MS EOL edition), or put any engine of more than mediocre performance in it. Besides that, the car has mushmello soft suspension (easily fixable), very cramped interior w/no real seat adjustment, and few Mazda performance parts unless you join their racing program.

But that's all some people need/want so it's certainly been successful for Mazda, and anyone else whose tried to directly emulate the MX-5 has always failed. That's why I'm happy this new Toyota/Subaru is not a MX-5 clone, but a bonafied modern 2+2 sports coupe with at least some balls straight out of the chute.

+1

I've noticed this as well, glad you pointed it out.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

True. I am probably being short sighted again...



If the ND MX-5 is any lighter than the NC, it's probably going to have the same or even less power. The main guy behind it was pretty disappointed that the MX-5 grew not just in size and weight but in power. One of the rumors was that the ND was getting a 1.8L or possibly a 1.6L again.

Admitably, I was disappointed early on that Toyota/Subaru got caught up in building a high output boxer instead of focusing more on balance and handling. There is a reason they blew the R&D budget on this car and it doesn't have anything to do with the suspension or weight distribution. Now if they want to build a more focused car they need to start over. Hence the Naruse RWD city car aka babyFT-86.

Not to mention if they want to go the other way with big HP they need a new engine! lol don't care.



Eh? That's neither here nor there.

it seemed you were trying to find a car that has a solid rear axle that was comfortable and has grip. i think the mustang does that pretty well

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by fatoni

it seemed you were trying to find a car that has a solid rear axle that was comfortable and has grip. i think the mustang does that pretty well

I didn't say anything about a solid axle. Nor did I say anything about grip or comfort. Who are you talking to?

[blur]

@all chcar I hope you know that a car with less than 200 hp wont sell today, regardless of how focused the handling is. I'd rather have the whole package

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by blur

@all chcar I hope you know that a car with less than 200 hp wont sell today, regardless of how focused the handling is. I'd rather have the whole package

Most new cars in the US have less than 180HP, Blur. -.\

[spin9k]

Since peps have mentioned FWD cars, here's a car that just might make the cut of 'real competition' at least performance and weight wise, with it being significantly lighter with only slightly less HP. Beyond that it looks to expressly setup as a track car... and only a step or two away from a true race car of a sort.

Live Fiat Abarth 500 Intro 11/16 1:30 PST
The press conference will also be shown on Fiat USA's new Abarth site http://www.fiatusa.com/abarth/ in about 3 hrs from now.

Autoblog has some info and the press release http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/16/2...ormance-to-am/

Reading the (extremely long and detailed) Press Release and given the number of times they mention the word "Track" you'll begin to wonder if this wasn't a street car at all, but a track car only (it isn't).

Certainly it looks like a toy, maybe a slot car... but with a turbocharged 1.4-liter MultiAir-equipped engine including two intercoolers, it delivers an estimated 160 horsepower (119 kw) and 170 lb.-ft. (230 n·m) of torque into an estimated 2200 lb chassis, it portends to be one hella fun car to put on and drive like a maniac

[blur]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Most new cars in the US have less than 180HP, Blur. -.\

None of them sport cars though...

[Chokonen888]

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

Hardtop like that it looks like a tiny viper lol

no....that looks like a small viper, this looks like a tiny viper

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by spin9k

Since peps have mentioned FWD cars, here's a car that just might make the cut of 'real competition' at least performance and weight wise, with it being significantly lighter with only slightly less HP. Beyond that it looks to expressly setup as a track car... and only a step or two away from a true race car of a sort.

Live Fiat Abarth 500 Intro 11/16 1:30 PST
The press conference will also be shown on Fiat USA's new Abarth site http://www.fiatusa.com/abarth/ in about 3 hrs from now.

Autoblog has some info and the press release http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/16/2...ormance-to-am/

Reading the (extremely long and detailed) Press Release and given the number of times they mention the word "Track" you'll begin to wonder if this wasn't a street car at all, but a track car only (it isn't).

Certainly it looks like a toy, maybe a slot car... but with a turbocharged 1.4-liter MultiAir-equipped engine including two intercoolers, it delivers an estimated 160 horsepower (119 kw) and 170 lb.-ft. (230 n·m) of torque into an estimated 2200 lb chassis, it portends to be one hella fun car to put on and drive like a maniac

I rented a Fiat 500 once. Fun ride (but the short wheelbase makes for a lot of jostling around on uneven surfaces) and pleasing interior. I'd try the Abarth over any FWD subcompact (Yaris, Fit, base Mini)... its specs blows past the competition. The next size up from the 500 is the Fiat Sedici (sedici = 16 in Italian = 4x4 = rebadged version of my SX4 AWD). The wheelbase is more livable on that one.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by blur

None of them sport cars though...

A MX-5 isn't a sports car? Lotus Elise isn't a sports car? Corolla GT-S isn't a sportscar? Surely, you jest.

Originally Posted by Chokonen888

no....that looks like a small viper, this looks like a tiny viper

Why does it have a wing... -.-?

[OldSkoolToys]

ones a roadster where basically anyone over 6'5" can't even physically drive it, with very limited cargo space, and the 'girl' mantra all over it.

The other is a 2+2 hardtop coupe, with more practicality.

In my eyes, no competition.

Heh heh...Corolla GT-S not a sports-car? The definition of 'sports car' is as objective and someones opinion on why French fries are better with ketchup instead of BBQ sauce. It goes both ways honestly....to me it is, (a main reason being the 86 chassis is different than the actual econo-box corolla's of the same era).