FR-S v.s. BRZ

[Liftcontrol]

The main difference for a driving enthusiast, would be the slightly softer rear suspension and firmer front for the subie compared to the FRS which has firmer rear and softer front suspension settings from the factory.

This may mean the FRS may be slightly more easy to drift while the BRZ might be slightly better around the corners. But for the average driver, this difference will be entirely negligible.

[aesthetect]

Originally Posted by Liftcontrol

The main difference for a driving enthusiast, would be the slightly softer rear suspension and firmer front for the subie compared to the FRS which has firmer rear and softer front suspension settings from the factory.

This may mean the FRS may be slightly more easy to drift while the BRZ might be slightly better around the corners. But for the average driver, this difference will be entirely negligible.

exactly, this is the only real known difference so far, aside from aesthetics. generally cars rear natural suspension frequencies are 80% that of the front, so the scion will be closer to equal spring rates between teh two. although ti also depends on antiroll bar stiffness, this will generally lead to a slight increase in oversteer tendency. i also wonder if the dampers will be any different. if the geometries/A-arms are the same id say its a wash though, as i bet most opt for aftermarket suspension pieces anyway, and adjustable aftermarket sway bars are almost inevitable. i really want to know if the rest fo the components will be the same. ive also heard the toyota will offer some sort of selection of transmission gear ratios, no idea if that will carry over to the subaru, much less the US at all.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Performance
FR-S > BRZ (why? Because FR-S should be lighter)

Cost
FR-S > BRZ (obvious reasons, doesn't come loaded with everything off hand and therefore cheaper)

what leads you to believe the FRS will be lighter? your cost comparison seems to make a lot of assumptions...

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Only half the motor is Subaru, but ALL of the design is Toyota.

exterior aesthetics and direct injection are toyota. all teh real engineering is subaru, as evidenced by all the car magazine reporters who were invited to test drive and talk to the engineers.

obviously the sames are more plentiful than the differences of these base models. i believe this is where the two companies are splitting, however, the next generation of increased performance models (ie TRD/supercharged yota and STi/turbod suby) will what define the difference. also, subaru seems to have already engineered a GT300 car from it, this seems to suggest they know what they wanted in the chassis (as we do know they did the most development/engineering) and i suspect their performance model will better embrace those things than the toyota.

that being said, if the car control is really as refined as they say id probably still prefer natural aspiration... heres to hoping somebody releases a lightweight, bare bones model

[rio7]

why cheapness?

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I have switch sides to the BRZ because of the cheapness of the FRS, not because of the styling.

[switchlanez]

We did see Gushi drifting the FR-S on Sodegaura. Its suspension may be tuned more for the track and the BRZ tuned more for comfort. Noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH levels) could be less on the BRZ which would justify higher cost.

[aesthetect]

the difference (which is only in spring and damper rates, mind you - and thus only applies if keeping them stock) is that the FRS has more neutral steering (more even spring rates front and rear, and iirc slightly stiffer damping) while the BRZ is tuned more for balance/stability.

[SUB-FT86]

How in the hell is half the engine Toyota's?? I didn't know D/I makes up half the engine? Lol!! And last time I checked Toyota doesn't make boxer motors. Anybody can easily see what Toyota did in this car.

Toyota

Styling
D4-S
Interior

Subaru

Engine
Platform
Suspension
Interior

[Levi]

For it is more a Toyota, as baby LFA. Because Toyota did not have anything good other than FWD and Hybrids, they used everything from Subaru. So yes from technical point it is a Subaru, from conceptional point it is a Toyota.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

How in the hell is half the engine Toyota's?? I didn't know D/I makes up half the engine? Lol!! And last time I checked Toyota doesn't make boxer motors. Anybody can easily see what Toyota did in this car.

This.

[Dragonitti]

So Yamaha didn't do the heads then? If not, then I digress that it's half Toyota. Credit is due to Toyota a little more than what is given imo still. From my understanding Subaru rejected the whole concept of the car, until it was after Toyotas presistence that the car was developed. So kudos for to them for turning Subaru into a beliver.

It really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. They are the same car.

[JDLM]

It is all he said she said when it comes down to in unless you were sitting in the meetings people are going to speculate and the companies are going to "market" the car how they see fit

[Dragonitti]

Yep, seems to also come down to BRZ interior vs GT86/FR-S exterior when it comes to peoples decisions on which one to go with. They like the GT86/FR-S exterior more, but want the BRZ's interior (at least with the FR-S they do).

Will be interesting to see how this dilemma will change once the options for the FR-S are known.

[JDLM]

It also seems like Toyota has been in the spot light giving test drives/reviews a little more than Subaru

[Dragonitti]

^True that. I was curious though as to why in the middle of all the complaints of no Push start for the FR-S and what not, that no one thought to just make their own Push Start? You can make a push start out of a cigarette lighter if you really wanted too...lol. Or go buy a cool button from the Aftermarket store/site and make one.

Or pick up an S2k push start button from the Honda dealer or pull-a-part junk yard.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-PU...9134%26ps%3D54

[aesthetect]

Originally Posted by JDLM

It also seems like Toyota has been in the spot light giving test drives/reviews a little more than Subaru

i suspect toyota was eager to get it out to the public, release photos, get test drives, to promote the notion that this car had more, or at least a lot, to do with them relative to subaru. using this forum as a gauge id say they were successful. subaru seems to have taken the opposite, get it all nailed down, release a GT300 BAMF simultaneously, and only allow limited invited test drives. saying that now, leads me to believe a performance version will come out of the subaru camp sooner.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

^True that. I was curious though as to why in the middle of all the complaints of no Push start for the FR-S and what not, that no one thought to just make their own Push Start? You can make a push start out of a cigarette lighter if you really wanted too...lol. Or go buy a cool button from the Aftermarket store/site and make one.

Or pick up an S2k push start button from the Honda dealer or pull-a-part junk yard.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-PU...9134%26ps%3D54