Subaru field engineer says OEM wheel studs only good for 75 to 80 wheel changes

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by xwd

I doubt it. You'd seriously have to go out of your way to buy the wrong lug nuts since almost all aftermarket lug nuts are the 60 degree conical seat all aftermarket and the stock wheels use.

Someone putting the wrong nuts on there and not noticing it when they did is baffling.

Well, I noticed the stock nuts don't work on my aftermarket wheels (RPF1, K4R); they look like the should but do not.

[EAGLE5]

I have hand threaded and carefully torqued nuts only to have them seize. I've anti-seized and hand threaded them only to have them seize. I only run street tires. I've had them seize after track days, but I've also had them seize after regular spirited driving. I've spend hundreds on these damn things, and I'll spend hundreds more to replace them with ARP. The stock bolts are garbage. The stock lugs are probably garbage too.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Depends on frequency of usage and how much lateral acceleration the car can generate. Cars with slicks and aero will need to replace them more often than cars on street tires and stock suspension.

Someone quoted 2-3 years to me once. That probably sounds right for the faster cars out there. As you can see in this thread some people get away with longer, but at some point you run the risk of a wheel coming off. Most every car I know that has lost a wheel had R comps and aero, but I also know a street-tired EF Civic that nearly lost a wheel (3/4 lugs were spotted loose).

The CSG BRZ used to get brakes glowing hot several times a week, for a few years.

Still on stock wheel bearings (somehow) and stock studs.

[avishenoy1]

FYI, be careful with hub centric spacers, I recently had a stud shear off my H&R Trak 25mm rear spacer and lost 2 lugs. Luckily I pitted before losing a wheel. I was running stock wheels with Continental Extremecontact DW tires, Bilstein B8 Shocks, RCE Yellow Springs, and Velox LCAs.

I'm pretty sure the LCAs were mostly responsible since they're made of 7075 Aluminum and are a LOT stiffer than the stock steel ones and thus transfer much more force from the shocks to the wheel studs when the stock ones would have flexed slightly and absorbed some of that force.

My factory studs were okay so thankfully I was able to just remove the spacers and bolt the wheels back on.

TLDR, Stiffer LCAs and aftermarket suspension parts will put a lot more shear stress on the studs. Don't use spacers at the track.

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by avishenoy1

FYI, be careful with hub centric spacers, I recently had stud shear off my H&R Trak 25mm rear spacer and lost 2 lugs. Luckily I pitted before losing a wheel. I was running stock wheels with Continental Extremecontact DW tires, Bilstein B8 Shocks, RCE Yellow Springs, and Velox LCAs.

I'm pretty sure the LCAs were mostly responsible since they're made of 7075 Aluminum and are a LOT stiffer than the stock steel ones and thus transfer much more force from the shocks to the wheel studs when the stock ones would have flexed slightly and absorbed some of that force.

My factory studs were okay so thankfully I was able to just remove the spacers and bolt the wheels back on.

TLDR, Stiffer LCAs and aftermarket suspension parts will put a lot more shear stress on the studs. Don't use spacers at the track.

I would highly doubt the different RLCA has anything to do with the stud failing. I've heard more stories than I can count on bolt on spacers having issues.

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The CSG BRZ used to get brakes glowing hot several times a week, for a few years.

Still on stock wheel bearings (somehow) and stock studs.

Must be magic

[ka-t_240]

This stud issue isn't specific to only the BRZ/FRS. I saw this happen all the time on the 08+ WRXs, especially ones that have had the wheels removed multiple times. Had to put a stud and 2 lugs in my moms Forester XT last month after the dealership had rotated her wheels over the winter at an oil change(impacts used).

That being said, I have not had one fail on any of my cars personal cars. I have also always used aftermarket lug nuts on the cars. I have seen my fair share of bad OEM lug nut threads. I am guessing someone over torqued them.

[avishenoy1]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

I would highly doubt the different RLCA has anything to do with the stud failing. I've heard more stories than I can count on bolt on spacers having issues.

Idk but I had done several track days with the spacers on stock struts and RLCAs without issue, but the first track day I did with the aftermarket parts resulted in the stud failing so I'm inclined to think that the RLCAs did have something to do with it. The Velox RLCAs are much stiffer than OEM...

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by avishenoy1

Idk but I had done several track days with the spacers on stock struts and RLCAs, but the first track day I did with the aftermarket parts resulted in the stud failing so I'm inclined to think that they did have something to do with it.

Or the part finally had enough stress that it failed. If it was the RLCA, then you think everyone that had aftermarket rear pieces would have wheels falling off. Especially all the stanced cars. lol

[avishenoy1]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

Or the part finally had enough stress that it failed. If it was the RLCA, then you think everyone that had aftermarket rear pieces would have wheels falling off. Especially all the stanced cars. lol

Yeah, it was probably more due to wear and tear over time than the RLCAs, but the stiffer/harder RLCAs will definitely put more stress on the studs than OEM, just saying.

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by avishenoy1

Yeah, it was probably more due to wear and tear over time than the RLCAs, but the stiffer/harder RLCAs will definitely put more stress on the studs than OEM, just saying.

For comparison, I have done 15+ track days, and around 30 auto-x events with my car. The rear is still on stock studs. Wheels and tires are swapped for every auto-x/hpde event from track to street wheels and off more times I can count at events and for other work. I have SPC RLCA, basically like stock. The rear studs have never been touched, all are original. Fronts are ARP and I run between 0 and 8mm spacers depedning on which wheels I am running. I have ARP rear studs, but I am lazy.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

The E30 guys have followed Bill since his crazy rally race in Mexico.

Yeah, I started following him when my cousin-in-law sent me the story shortly after it was posted to Jalopnik. I added him on FB and messaged with him a few times. Then I ran into him at SEMA a little while after that and he got me into the Hoonigan Keg Party
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRJeb8_82CY"][HOONIGAN] Keg Party and Tire Slaying Burnout Pad Extravaganza at GRC SEMA 2012 - YouTube[/ame]

(that is one handsome back of a head at 0:53 )

Two years later I moved from Arizona to Chicagoland for a new job, ended up working two desks away from one of his good friends, and now I wrench on cars in the very same garage that the WRC E30 was built in!

[NVSmythe]

Hey Guys,

Throwing my 0.02 in here.

I just had my wheel stud threads completely strip out on me.
I don't change the tires too often, maybe 3-5 times a year switching between summer/winter tires and rotations.
Yesterday I was switching to my winter tires and as I was loosening the last lug nut, I heard a metallic ping. I usually back them out 3-4 turns before lifting the car and unscrewing the rest by hand.
I got this last one about 1 or 1.5 rotations when I heard the ping, I immediately know there was a problem, so I lifted the car, got all the others off by hand and of course this one was stuck.
I ended up having to grab a breaker bar and force it off ruining the stock wheel stud and lug nut in the process.

Now I used to be a quality engineer For Toyota, I've changed hundreds of tires, I used anti seize on these lugs/ studs, I hand start the lugs every time.
There's not a chance this one was cross threaded.

In my case I believe the failure mode was from the weight of the vehicle pushing out on the wheel as I loosened the lugs. I did have a jack under there but I only lift the suspension so there is still enough weight on the tire to keep it from slipping as I break all the lugs loose.
But, since it was the last lug all the force was on that one.

My opinion, this was unfortunate and while it shouldn't happen I can see how it did.
The bigger problem I see is the number of people who have had similar issues with the wheel studs, clearly there is an issue. At the oldest these vehicles are 4 years old, there aren't that many of them in the market, and I'm only looking at posts from one forum.

The failure rate is too high.

[Weasel Soup]

I've had two failures last year. Both were on the front, when taking tires off during preparations/tire changes for RallyCross duty. The first happened on the passenger front and had to be broken off. The second was about a month later at the next event. The lug nut stripped and destroyed the stud in the removal process.

At that point I stopped using the factory lug nuts with some parts store "spline drive" lug nuts. I'd had the car for less that 1.5 years and fewer than 20k miles. I'd wager to guess it was less than 50 tire changes.

Other than the two replacement studs, I'm still on the stock studs and that first set of replacement nuts. The nuts are starting to show signs of aging and might get replaced before I upgrade to track rubber before going out onto High Plains Raceway next spring. Might as well replace all the studs for peace of mind while I'm at it...