Side mirror delete

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Does this mean I am sucking up gas and going way slower than I should be?

Yes. Shame on you.


Actually I'm with Pilot on this one. It's real.

[soulreapersteve]

Originally Posted by MalcolmHimself

What's your view like out of the car?

Pretty good actually. Can see the whole hood until the slope and front car's bumper with plenty of road unless I stop extremely close (which I never do).



Wish I had a go pro, then I can strap it on my head and do some sort of virtual tour.

[Vracer111]

I have actual racing mirrors with less than 1/2 the area of the Dumbo sized stock monsters... I know I have better than stock aero with them technically, but my average fuel consumption is still about 21mpg...LOL. If you did cameras it would not be the same as mirrors even if they were out on stalks to get a proper view because looking at the center of the car or dash would be a weird and unnatural scan technique. You still have to physically check the view on each side of the vehicle - mirrors are much simpler and better to use because they are where you need to be looking at to begin with.

Just get race mirrors if you want better aero and looks while still being functional.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Yes. Shame on you.


Actually I'm with Pilot on this one. It's real.

I am not disputing the reality of drag. My issue is the high levels being stated. The mirrors are not just flat slabs slapped on the side of the car and the aero on them was no doubt well thought out to minimize the drag. I am probably talking totally out of my ass but just can not for one second agree that there would be a 10% increase in fuel consumption because of these mirrors.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am not disputing the reality of drag. My issue is the high levels being stated. The mirrors are not just flat slabs slapped on the side of the car and the aero on them was no doubt well thought out to minimize the drag. I am probably talking totally out of my ass but just can not for one second agree that there would be a 10% increase in fuel consumption because of these mirrors.

It's because they stick out into the air. Air follows fluid dynamics the same way water does. Imagine sticking a mirror onto the bottom of a boat... not good right? Same thing starts to matter on a car even before reaching highway speeds. And on our cars having a low Cd anyway, I'll bet the mirrors are much closer to 7% than 3%.

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[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

It's because they stick out into the air. Air follows fluid dynamics the same way water does. Imagine sticking a mirror onto the bottom of a boat... not good right? Same thing starts to matter on a car even before reaching highway speeds. And on our cars having a low Cd anyway, I'll bet the mirrors are much closer to 7% than 3%.

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Of the drag I mean. Fuel consumption changes based on speed, yeah on the city streets you don't really notice, but on the highway it makes a BIG difference expecially the faster you go. It's an exponential curve, you don't need to be 170mph, 70mph is probably a 4mpg difference. I don't know what that gives you back in power/acceleration but I could probably quantify it for you if I researched it for a bit.

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

It's because they stick out into the air. Air follows fluid dynamics the same way water does. Imagine sticking a mirror onto the bottom of a boat... not good right? Same thing starts to matter on a car even before reaching highway speeds. And on our cars having a low Cd anyway, I'll bet the mirrors are much closer to 7% than 3%.

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Ahhhh shit that is where my brain was messing with me right there. I was thinking general terms for cars and then applying the thought to ours specifically. Sort of the reverse to my put truck mirrors on our cars thought if we put our mirrors on a truck they would have less impact.
Of course the already low Cd would increase the mirrors impact. Duh!

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ahhhh shit that is where my brain was messing with me right there. I was thinking general terms for cars and then applying the thought to ours specifically. Sort of the reverse to my put truck mirrors on our cars thought if we put our mirrors on a truck they would have less impact.
Of course the already low Cd would increase the mirrors impact. Duh!

Exactly, it's the same reason 250ft/lbs in these is like crazy power.

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[HunterGreene]

I remember hearing somewhere that, in general, the front fenders of most modern cars are designed to deflect air around the side mirrors (part of the reason that the TRD fender aero is a bit redundant)

Second thing I heard is that, as far as highway speeds are concerned, cars are designed to be *most* aerodynamic at 65 mph, or at least the optimal highway speed.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

Airplanes start to fly at around highway speeds. Anything over 50mph, it matters more and more exponentially.

Which has nothing at all to do with the mirrors on our cars, since they are not there to make the car fly.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Which has nothing at all to do with the mirrors on our cars, since they are not there to make the car fly.

Trust me you don't want to have aerodynamic debate with me. ERAU alumni betch

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[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

Trust me you don't want to have aerodynamic debate with me. ERAU alumni betch

That's not all that impressive when you keep making bizarre, irrelevant comments. Like this one:

Originally Posted by p1l0t

Yeah at 50mph it's about 1 mpg but it increases on an exponential curve.. i.e. at 60 mph is like 2 mpg or something 70 would be 4 mpg, etc... and that can be translated to more power of you're not the gas saving type.

Nothing whatsoever that you do to the mirrors on this car will give it more power. You must have been a very poor student if you don't understand the difference between thrust (power) and drag.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

That's not all that impressive when you keep making bizarre, irrelevant comments. Like this one:



Nothing whatsoever that you do to the mirrors on this car will give it more power. You must have been a very poor student if you don't understand the difference between thrust (power) and drag.

Less power needed.. save a penny earn a penny..

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[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am not disputing the reality of drag. My issue is the high levels being stated. The mirrors are not just flat slabs slapped on the side of the car and the aero on them was no doubt well thought out to minimize the drag. I am probably talking totally out of my ass but just can not for one second agree that there would be a 10% increase in fuel consumption because of these mirrors.

The key is this:

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

I remember hearing somewhere that, in general, the front fenders of most modern cars are designed to deflect air around the side mirrors (part of the reason that the TRD fender aero is a bit redundant)

These people are considering the drag of mirrors by themselves, when the aerodynamics of a vehicle have to be taken as a whole. You can't just measure the drag of a mirror by itself on a stick and add that to the overall drag of the car, because other features in the shape of the car will affect the shape of the slipstream. Furthermore, not every object that creates drag is bad. Sometimes it's beneficial to actually add drag in one place to improve the overall aerodynamics of the vehicle.

So until I see actual wind tunnel tests of THIS car with mirrors compared to THIS car without mirrors, I'm considering every bit of this to be nonsense concocted by amateur Prius scientists.