FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Zaku

If it's that close it could come down to the driver.....

We need a STIG

>_>

I wouldn't call that super close. ~0.6 seconds is a fairly large distance. At 90miles per hour trap speed that is close to 80 feet difference.

[SUB-FT86]

The GC is getting a 275hp/275tq 2.0t d/i,twin scroll engine and the v6 will be getting a 340hp/295tq engine. It wont compete with the v8 muscle coupes but those numbers I think is really good numbers considering the 2.0t is around 3300 lbs and the v6 is around 3400 lbs. Imagine spending 2k on that 2.0t.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The GC is getting a 275hp/275tq 2.0t d/i,twin scroll engine and the v6 will be getting a 340hp/295tq engine. It wont compete with the v8 muscle coupes but those numbers I think is really good numbers considering the 2.0t is around 3300 lbs and the v6 is around 3400 lbs. Imagine spending 2k on that 2.0t.

That is nuts. That is a weight to power ratio of 12:1 pounds:hp. If the FT-86 can hit 2700lbs and 200hp that would be 13.5:1. Plus I am assuming the turbo engine would have more tuning possibility than a NA high compression engine that is already tuned close to its limit?

Btw, doesn't the current GC 2.0T use 87 octane? I wonder if the new version will use the same? With a new ECU flash/map and 91 octane you would be well over 300hp stock. That is nasty stuff right there. But then in the end it is still heavy.

[SUB-FT86]

It currently uses 87 or 91/93. And the hp figures for the new 2.0t engine is with 87 but it will probably make 290 hp with premium fuel. Hyundai isnt the same old Hyundai I use to laugh at years ago. They have already surpassed Honda IMO.

[tranzformer]

So have those engines actually been confirmed for the new GC? Or is it still speculation at this time.



I guess it is important to differentiate competitors for the FR-S/FT-86 based on (1) price and (2) performance/design. Sure the FT-86 is unique in the performance/design aspect in regards to lightweight, FR and good handling. So maybe other cars can't beat them in this regards as they are all going to be heavier. However for #1 (price), the FT-86 will have competitors. Might not give you a lightweight car like the FT-86. But when has the common consumer cared about that. At least here in America it has always been that HP sells cars. Now with the economy tanking and gas prices going up, mpg has become slightly more important for more people. So Toyota could make up sales lost by not having the hp ratings of other cars, but maybe they can make up some of those sales if this car really will get "great gas mileage" as they said at NYIAS.

[SUB-FT86]

The v6 is confirmed but the 2.0t engine exist in the sonata/optima.

[Ryephile]

I agree the 370Z is not a direct competitor to the FR-S. The primary reason is the price points are likely to be very different. Also, the power and weight numbers will be totally different. The only reasons to compare them is they're both Japanese, both FR, and kinda similarly sized coupes. Of course, just on those similarities you could argue the Lexus LF-A is a competitor too, but you'd be wrong.

I for one hate V-6's, so any sports car with a V-6 is automatically off my "must have" list. The 350Z, 370Z, and Infiniti G's sound awful and are overweight inefficient blobs lined with a Tupperware interior. If I were given a 370Z I'd be pissed and get rid of it immediately. I'd rather have a Corvette 'cuz at least it has a luscious burly V-8.

So no, the Z isn't a competitor for the FR-S. The closest competitors are the Genesis Coupe [which is too huge and heavy for me to bother with], and the Miata PRHT, which is an incredible reference.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Of course, just on those similarities you could argue the Lexus LF-A is a competitor too, but you'd be wrong.

Yeah but I don't think someone would cross shop at $400k car with a $30k car. If someone is interested in spending ~$30k on a car, take a look at a 370z like it but hear about Toyota/Scion coming out with a 2 door FR car for ~$25k I think they might take a look at that. They might not be in the same performance category, but someone wanting a FR, sporty 2 door car for under $35k doesn't have too many options. It comes down to a matter of narrowing down what you want out of a car; lightweight, hp, handling, interior, mod capability...etc. I don't see a problem with people cross shopping a 370z, V6 Mustang/Comaro, GC...etc. Yes the FT-86 has no direct competitor based on the niche Toyota is trying to fill. However the general consumer won't realize that and will shop for a 2 door FR sports car.

[SUB-FT86]

Im the complete opposite of Ryephile when it comes to engines. I hate the power,sound,and feel of a 4 banger but I love the sound of most v6 engines like the GC V6. It sounds racey and feels smooth in its power delivery. I have a feeling the engine in the FR-S wont live up to my standards since I also do not care for the sound of a boxer 4. But I will have to wait and see.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I thought the tC ran a 16 second 1/4 and the GC 2.0T a low 15 second quarter?

2011 tC: http://www.insideline.com/scion/tc/2...and-video.html

GC 2.0T: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html

tC is not a 16sec car. It's a mid-low 15sec car. I was talking 2005+ years.

Car and Driver
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ression_page_3

Speaking of the Lexus IS, the tC is nearly as quick as its 215-hp luxury cousin. The sporty Scion scoots from 0 to 60 in 7.4 seconds and through the quarter-mile in 15.7 seconds at 88 mph, only 0.1 and 0.2 second, respectively, behind the IS ("$35,000 Sports Sedans," March 2004).

Highly doubt the 2011 tC runs 16s either. Pretty sure DSport ran faster than 16secs when they tested it. Nov. 2010 issue.

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I wouldn't call that super close. ~0.6 seconds is a fairly large distance. At 90miles per hour trap speed that is close to 80 feet difference.

tC traps at 88mph. As mentioned above. Looking at the price difference between the two cars as well as their numbers on paper....tC 160hp FWD vs a turbo RWD and still running the same 1/4 mile times equates to

GC 2.0T = SLOW for what it is. It is to heavy. I was heavily considering buying one until I read it's performance specs and was sorely disappointed.

When we first got our tC, I had the rear seats removed and on factory Scion tires was running 15.1-15.2sec 1/4 mile times.

I will say the GC's 2.0T motor responds great to a turbo upgraded system and makes good power.

PTuning worked their magic on the 2.0T

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Im the complete opposite of Ryephile when it comes to engines. I hate the power,sound,and feel of a 4 banger but I love the sound of most v6 engines like the GC V6. It sounds racey and feels smooth in its power delivery. I have a feeling the engine in the FR-S wont live up to my standards since I also do not care for the sound of a boxer 4. But I will have to wait and see.

define smooth

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by fatoni

define smooth

I think I understand his post about smooth....Hmm from where Im from they call the Z sound " Nissan rumble" and it's a pretty smooth growl from that 3.7 V6 on the Z or if you have ever heard a R35 GTR or even a G37S it's got the smooth continuious growl.

"Nissan Rumble"

now... if were going to talk about Smooth sound, Rotary sounds the smoothest it's got that steady Jet engine spin climb.

I know this will prolly never happen but I hope Yamaha tunes the sounds of the FT.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

define smooth

The power comes on in a smooth way and the engine never feels stressed like a 4 banger does when you're really into the throttle. I notice most V6's and V8's have the same feeling I'm talking about. 4 cylinders IMO feel less refined and make a lot of noise and never feel like they go anywhere from my experience.

[iff2mastamatt]

Also, don't forget the MKI was almost indentical to the Z's body.



Though it might be underpowered internally, it still snags the looks.