Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[enwave]

Originally Posted by Winjr

DAEMANO, e85 is really that much better? I mean, I've seen the dynos so I know the numbers. Let me put it this way ...

Is e85 + ESC even just close to a butt dyno improvement over ESC alone, as was stock + tune over stock. When I got the tune I thought "wow, this is fabulous".

Should I expect no ill effects with the direct injectors? Would e85 actually be kinder to the DI's? I only mentioned this due to some paranoia over DI issues, having already needed to replace #1 and #3 because they got extremely gunked up for reasons still unknown, though I now suspect it was the gas station where I was regularly fueling.

I've got an unlimited supply of e85 just a few miles away and I'm contemplating a flex fuel kit as well.

Cant speak to butt dyno results as I haven't driven the E85 tune for the ESC yet. But it is advised to run a tank of 91/93oct through occasionally when running E85 as E85 can have fewer additives (depending on where you get your fuel) to protect things like your injectors. E85 being an alcohol based fuel is more prone to being corrosive and evaporative. In the past I usually have run a tank of 91oct every 10-15 tanks of E85. I hear there are also aftermarket additives you can use in place of running a tank of traditional fuel that work just as well.

Some people claim none of that is necessary, but I like to be safe.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by enwave

Not available from Subaru. It's basically a sensor that will read the ethanol content of your fuel and allow an Ecutek tune to adjust to match the ethanol content of your fuel. Shiv's tune is good from E60 up, so flex fuel isn't necessary for most people, but it can be really convenient that you don't have to drain tanks to switch fuels, etc. It is also nice in case you get a particularly bad blend of E85 from a shady station, etc. just safer all around.

I have been using Shiv's E85 OTS in the past and loved it and plan on using his tune again when it is available for ESC 6AT. No flex fuel hardware sensor required for it, but it's wise to check your logs after filling to make sure the station didn't give you something wacky.

Perfectly answered.

Same experience here. Run Shiv's e85 tune, no flex fuel kit needed. If for some reason you really want to run a flex fuel kit, you'll also need another tuning platform.

My fill-ups generally look something like this.
run to fuel light comes on = est 2 gallons remaining
add = e85 est 9 gallons
add = CA91 est 1 gallon (for improved cold starts and added lubricity).

Starts smooth on cold mornings
Runs like a champ. AFRs rock solid, and of course the power, omg... the power.

[WRB5titch]

THIS!!!!!!

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

...and of course the power, omg... the power.

[radroach]

You guys should do a hillclimb test on these things. The long hill climb on that highway out of Denver, CO. would really test the efficiency of this device I think, or even make a run on Pikes Peak with it!

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by radroach

You guys should do a hillclimb test on these things. The long hill climb on that highway out of Denver, CO. would really test the efficiency of this device I think, or even make a run on Pikes Peak with it!

Sounds like fun anyone willing to try?

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

Sounds like fun anyone willing to try?

I am going to Denver Colorado next week ha ah but unfortunately my method of transportation is a jet

[radroach]

I just know on my stock tune, stock car the hill climb out of Denver was difficult to get speeds above 45-55 mph uphill without the engine gasping.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Winjr

DAEMANO, e85 is really that much better? I mean, I've seen the dynos so I know the numbers. Let me put it this way ...

Is e85 + ESC even just close to a butt dyno improvement over ESC alone, as was stock + tune over stock. When I got the tune I thought "wow, this is fabulous".

Should I expect no ill effects with the direct injectors? Would e85 actually be kinder to the DI's? I only mentioned this due to some paranoia over DI issues, having already needed to replace #1 and #3 because they got extremely gunked up for reasons still unknown, though I now suspect it was the gas station where I was regularly fueling.

I've got an unlimited supply of e85 just a few miles away and I'm contemplating a flex fuel kit as well.

Ok so @Robftss Phantom ESC is awesome F.I. we all know that. So what does e85 and @Shiv@Openflash 's tune add to the mix? Cooled intake charge, greater compressibility, higher octane. Is it worth it? Check it out...

WOT - MAX power:
-The STOCK power numbers are roughly 170 WHP / 135WTQ
-The ESC 1.5x + OFT + Header numbers are roughly 200 WHP / 175 WTQ (+30WHP + 40WTQ)
-The ESC 1.5x +OFT + Header + e85 numbers are roughly 225 WHP / 200WTQ (+55WHP / 65WTQ)

Both HP and TQ differences at WOT are terrific with just the ESC + Header. Add e85 and that difference goes to phenomenal. HP per dollar, the Innovative Stg1 SC kit cant even remotely come close for nearly double the cost.

But it goes deeper than that...
Remember when driving around town, you're not always WOT. Most of the time it's something under (usually between 3000 to 5000 RPM). I'll call this "area under ESC". This is where e85 is sort of a buried treasure (header helps too). Here, the added mid-range torque is quite impressive and noticeable.

In the "torque dip" at 4000RPM:
-The STOCK power numbers are roughly 90 WHP / 115WTQ @4000RPM
-The ESC 1.5x + Header + OFT numbers are roughly 140 WHP / 175 WTQ (+50WHP + 60 WTQ) @4000RPM
-The ESC 1.5x + Header + OFT +e85 numbers are roughly 150 WHP / 200WTQ (+65WHP / +85WTQ) @4000RPM!

E85 amplifies the beauty of the Phantom ESC like slapping stilettos on the end of Stacy Kiebler's already ridiculous legs.

But it goes even deeper than that...
How about non-WOT?:
Let's compare Stock vs e85 without activating the ESC at 4000RPM and with the stock header. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55450
-The STOCK power numbers are roughly 100 WHP / 120WTQ @4000RPM
-The e85 power numbers are roughly 120 WHP / 150 WTQ (+20WHP +30WTQ) @4000RPM. This is also +15WTQ above the STOCK cars max WTQ number.

The transition from non-WOT to WOT driving is smoothed out because the car is producing more torque without boost. Driving around town is a lot more comfortable. At WOT, the fun is just plain silly as the torque ramps up.

About gunk in your D.I.s. I have not read about this issue yet on the board. I'd love to hear more about it though.

Finally about durability/safety. There's a thread (can't find it at the moment) where there are owners reporting that they are over a year and 30k+ miles on e85 with no issues. It's looking more and more like this cars fuel system was designed to handle the extra corrosiveness and fuel injection needs of e85. Both @WRB5titch & I have ran it with no issues other than cold-start (which is easily resolved with a gallon of pump-gas) and crickets. We are both currently testing Lucasoil Ethanol Treatment as a possible remedy.

I'm going to quote another user from IWISTI because he puts it so succinctly.

We have a sticky on this very subject here... Everything you need to know about E85 It explains this in detail.

The disconnection here is that it produces less power than gasoline because there is less energy contained in the same volume of E85 versus gasoline. But what is not being considered is that when properly proportioned with the volume of air being consumed by the engine, I.E. 30% more fuel per pound of air, the energy output is much greater than that of petroleum. As a result the cylinder pressures are greater and the exhaust load is increased. This is the primary reason for all the extra power and it's resistance to knock is only one secondary advantage.

Also it is not at all corrosive or any more damaging than petroleum when use in today's modern automobiles. Today's cars have to be resistant to ethanol since the late 80's when 10% ethanol was introduced. This is also covered in the sticky. Besides I have been running E85 for four years solid and have experienced no ill effects from it's use.

[enwave]

Intriguing to hear that modern E85 isn't extra corrosive. I wonder if regulations in the past few years have required certain additives in E85. That isn't what I've always been taught, but I'm certainly happy to hear it might be better now! Also, most (see: all) engines after 1985 have protection against ethanol damage since standard octane fuels have some mixed in.

EDIT: also, I know my local station runs ~E75 blend in the winter for better cold starts since we have some brutal winters. I've never had to mix in when running it around here, which is extra convenient!

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Ok so @Robftss Phantom ESC is awesome F.I. we all know that. So what does e85 and @Shiv@Openflash 's tune add to the mix? Cooled intake charge, greater compressibility, higher octane. Is it worth it? Check it out...

WOT - MAX power:
-The STOCK power numbers are roughly 170 WHP / 135WTQ
-The ESC 1.5x + OFT + Header numbers are roughly 200 WHP / 175 WTQ (+30WHP + 40WTQ)
-The ESC 1.5x +OFT + Header + e85 numbers are roughly 225 WHP / 200WTQ (+55WHP / 65WTQ)

Both HP and TQ differences at WOT are terrific with just the ESC + Header. Add e85 and that difference goes to phenomenal. HP per dollar, the Innovative Stg1 SC kit cant even remotely come close for nearly double the cost.

But it goes deeper than that...
Remember when driving around town, you're not always WOT. Most of the time it's something under (usually between 3000 to 5000 RPM). I'll call this "area under ESC". This is where e85 is sort of a buried treasure (header helps too). Here, the added mid-range torque is quite impressive and noticeable.

In the "torque dip" at 4000RPM:
-The STOCK power numbers are roughly 90 WHP / 115WTQ @4000RPM
-The ESC 1.5x + Header + OFT numbers are roughly 140 WHP / 175 WTQ (+50WHP + 60 WTQ) @4000RPM
-The ESC 1.5x + Header + OFT +e85 numbers are roughly 150 WHP / 200WTQ (+65WHP / +85WTQ) @4000RPM!

E85 amplifies the beauty of the Phantom ESC like slapping stilettos on the end of Stacy Kiebler's already ridiculous legs.

But it goes even deeper than that...
How about non-WOT?:
Let's compare Stock vs e85 without activating the ESC at 4000RPM and with the stock header. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55450
-The STOCK power numbers are roughly 100 WHP / 120WTQ @4000RPM
-The e85 power numbers are roughly 120 WHP / 150 WTQ (+20WHP +30WTQ) @4000RPM. This is also +15WTQ above the STOCK cars max WTQ number.

The transition from non-WOT to WOT driving is smoothed out because the car is producing more torque without boost. Driving around town is a lot more comfortable. At WOT, the fun is just plain silly as the torque ramps up.

About gunk in your D.I.s. I have not read about this issue yet on the board. I'd love to hear more about it though.

Finally about durability/safety. There's a thread (can't find it at the moment) where there are owners reporting that they are over a year and 30k+ miles on e85 with no issues. It's looking more and more like this cars fuel system was designed to handle the extra corrosiveness and fuel injection needs of e85. Both @WRB5titch & I have ran it with no issues other than cold-start (which is easily resolved with a gallon of pump-gas) and crickets. We are both currently testing Lucasoil Ethanol Treatment as a possible remedy.

I'm going to quote another user from IWISTI because he puts it so succinctly.

This is spot on explains why this setup is so epic

[silent runner]

Just a note back to the issue of some problems. I had an early issue in my testing, and Rob was also fantastically good about straightening it out! Now I have had an issue with the parts I developed for my prototype installation.
With multiple days of running around in temperatures, in the 31C (mid 90's F) range, one of my intake system hoses has split open. (a big beafy piece made by Mazda originally) After 7 months of reliable operation, I have to replace this piece, and re-assess how it can be made more durable! This is one simple, rubber hose... not a whole system. I totally get the challenge!

[enwave]

Originally Posted by raven1231

I am going to Denver Colorado next week ha ah but unfortunately my method of transportation is a jet

Funny. I'll be in Denver tomorrow night. But it's a jet for me too.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by enwave

Funny. I'll be in Denver tomorrow night. But it's a jet for me too.

ha ha yeah I'm not leaving until Saturday. My girlfriends dad and step mom live there and were going to visit them on vacation.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

WOT - MAX power: ...

But it goes deeper than that...

In the "torque dip" at 4000RPM:
-The STOCK power numbers are roughly 90 WHP / 115WTQ @4000RPM
-The ESC 1.5x + Header + OFT numbers are roughly 140 WHP / 175 WTQ (+50WHP + 60 WTQ) @4000RPM
-The ESC 1.5x + Header + OFT +e85 numbers are roughly 150 WHP / 200WTQ (+65WHP / +85WTQ) @4000RPM!

E85 amplifies the beauty of the Phantom ESC like slapping stilettos on the end of Stacy Kiebler's already ridiculous legs.

But it goes even deeper than that...

How about non-WOT?:
Let's compare Stock vs e85 without activating the ESC at 4000RPM and with the stock header. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55450
-The STOCK power numbers are roughly 100 WHP / 120WTQ @4000RPM
-The e85 power numbers are roughly 120 WHP / 150 WTQ (+20WHP +30WTQ) @4000RPM. This is also +15WTQ above the STOCK cars max WTQ number.

cool post, but was anyone else disappointed when he didn't offer it for 5 easy payments of $XX.95, and offer a second one If you order today?