4th gen ND Mazda MX-5 Miata

[Ultramaroon]

I still can't fit in one so FRS for the win.

[BRZPDX]

The 86 will never lose to a damn Miata.

[ZDan]

In talking power to weight, you have to include driver weight. Miata is going to be about 16 lb/hp with a 160 lb. driver. FRS/BRZ are 14.5 with same driver weight.

I am all about light weight. But I just don't get 155hp from a 7000+rpm 2.0. WTF, Mazda...

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by ZDan

In talking power to weight, you have to include driver weight. Miata is going to be about 16 lb/hp with a 160 lb. driver. FRS/BRZ are 14.5 with same driver weight.

I am all about light weight. But I just don't get 155hp from a 7000+rpm 2.0. WTF, Mazda...

True true.

Wait, is 7000+ rpm confirmed? 155hp at 7000rpm is like 115 ft-lbs of torque (this is probably less than at idle lol), at 6000rpm it's 135 ft-lbs...


This is why I keep saying, 155hp is wrong. There are too many things about it that don't make sense. Mazda made a clear tradeoff of torque for fuel economy (it's evident the ultra high CR has knock managed by lower volumetric efficiency cams) but that doesn't explain why the engine has this little power.

Also note the chart says 87 AKI. The Miata is going to take 91 isn't it? It should definitely make more power on 91!

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by BRZPDX

The 86 will never lose to a damn Miata.

Except on a tight autocross course.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

I honestly don't think that this miata will be any faster than the last miata.
It will perform just like any other Miata, but I really think that people assume it will be faster because it looks faster.
There is no real data to prove one way or the other.

Other than pure speculation, we have no real figures. Even supposed "First drive" reports are on the Euro version.

It's front-mid like the NC but with a curb weight like the NA/NB..... with refined, modernized suspension geometry (which was already good to begin with) and a stiffer chassis. It's going to be faster.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

It's front-mid like the NC but with a curb weight like the NA/NB..... with refined, modernized suspension geometry (which was already good to begin with) and a stiffer chassis. It's going to be faster.

Still all speculation.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Still all speculation.

Below are quotes from Mazda: link

"Front-midship engine rear-wheel-drive configuration achieves an ideal 50:50 front-rear weight distribution."

"The engine is located closer to the vehicle’s center, the hood, trunk lid, front fender and front and rear bumper reinforcements are made of aluminum, and the weight of the soft top is reduced. These combine to realize a lower yaw inertial moment and a lower center of gravity."

"New lightweight, yet highly rigid, suspension fully leverages the know-how of SKYACTIV Technology, with a double-wishbone suspension in the front and multilink suspension in the rear."



And to dredge up the "ND vs 86" comparison, in Motortrend's 2013 vs the Miata was a hair better than the FR-S in terms of acceleration, lateral g's, quarter mile, and braking. You could blame the Primacy, but those Potenza's can be upgraded as well...
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html

[tahdizzle]

You are still SPECULATING that it will be faster.

There is no evidence one way or the other. On paper it doesn't even give concrete evidence that it WILL be faster. ~120 lbs of weight reduction and an addition 10 ft*lbs of torque does not mean it WILL be faster. You can only SPECULATE that it WILL be faster.

Now that we have a clear understanding of what you are SPECULATING at, I can continue to say that I don't think it will be any faster than the out-going NC miata.

[tahdizzle]

You are cherry picking data.

as for the miata vs. twins comment.
You are assuming that twins want better rubber than the miata. Which is also not true. Twin owners are simply stating that given equal rubber, it would be a more fair comparison.

You are also comparing a "Club Sport" Miata to a twin. Now there are always the "well it comes from the factory, so its a fair comparison" arguments.

I am not from that camp. Even when I drove my scion I found it very biased to cars with multiple trims to compare a base model vehicle to a sport trim vehicle.

Base FR-S to a Base miata.

Where is that comparison?

[totopo]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

You are cherry picking data.

as for the miata vs. twins comment.
You are assuming that twins want better rubber than the miata. Which is also not true. Twin owners are simply stating that given equal rubber, it would be a more fair comparison.

You are also comparing a "Club Sport" Miata to a twin. Now there are always the "well it comes from the factory, so its a fair comparison" arguments.

I am not from that camp. Even when I drove my scion I found it very biased to cars with multiple trims to compare a base model vehicle to a sport trim vehicle.

Base FR-S to a Base miata.

Where is that comparison?

This is a pretty silly sentiment. Of course you should look at the appropriate packages. But of course you should look at the respective price of the car with each package. Why the he'll can't you compare sports versions with other cars, especially if that's what you are interested in? so when you talk about a z4 you are only allowed to talk about the 28 and not the 35is? Are you only allowed to talk about the Cayman and not the Cayman S?

It would be silly to say x car is cheaper AND faster because the base car is cheaper and the loaded car is faster. But why the he'll can't you compare both a sports and a club miata with each other and other cars? They both maintain a factory waranty

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by totopo

This is a pretty silly sentiment. Of course you should look at the appropriate packages. But of course you should look at the respective price of the car with each package. Why the he'll can't you compare sports versions with other cars, especially if that's what you are interested in? so when you talk about a z4 you are only allowed to talk about the 228 and not the 335is?

It would be silly to say x car is cheaper AND faster because the base car is cheaper and the loaded car is faster. But why the he'll can't you compare both a sports and a club miata with each other and other cars? They both maintain a factory waranty

Reason why is that you want to keep the comparison as apples to apples as possible. There is no additional performance version of the FR-S so why try to compare it vs an uprated performance Miata? Why to skew the conclusion in favor of the Miata of course.

Think "base" Porsche Cayman vs. Cayman GT4. They both say Cayman, right? Same car technically... Nope, not close.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9-Sr8RPty4"]Chris Harris on Cars - Porsche Cayman GT4 full test - YouTube[/ame]

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by totopo

This is a pretty silly sentiment. Of course you should look at the appropriate packages. But of course you should look at the respective price of the car with each package. Why the he'll can't you compare sports versions with other cars, especially if that's what you are interested in? so when you talk about a z4 you are only allowed to talk about the 228 and not the 335is?

It would be silly to say x car is cheaper AND faster because the base car is cheaper and the loaded car is faster. But why the he'll can't you compare both a sports and a club miata with each other and other cars? They both maintain a factory waranty

That is a silly statement in itself. We're not talking about 10s of thousands of dollars here. So a couple grand is immaterial in the comparison.

You're example is also silly.

Hmm, lets see compare a z4 to a sedan... yes because they are very similar.

I'm saying Comparing lets say a C-250 to a M235i BMW. Thats an asinine comparison. A fair comparison would be a c-250 to a 228i.

[DAEMANO]

To be fair, even a $1000 upgrade to the 86 get's it a set of Michelin Pilot Super Sports (or better) + Camber bolts + Brake Pads + Fluid. $1500 gets all the above and an OFT e85 tune, and that pretty much ends this comparison. So the only reasonable apples to apples comparo is base model vs base model.