Innovate (Sprintex) Supercharger Owners Topic

[calispec]

Take anything to an extreme and you can sometimes stumble upon an answer. Imagine that intake tube were a mile long. The SC would have one hell of a time getting air into a motor. Try sucking through a 20 foot straw. Same story. Now try to blow through the same intake tube or straw. Volumetric flow rate will be significantly more. When sucking there can only ever be a pressure differential of 1 atmosphere all the while making the air less dense and reducing the mass flow rate. Going the other way you can pump as much pressure as the tube can hold while making the charge denser and increasing mass flow rate. Any turbo or supercharged application will try to limit the amount of restriction before the inlet. Most high HP turbo cars stick the turbo right through
the bumper with no filter.

One thing I am not families with is the bypass valve on the supercharger. Just because you spin the thing at 10k rpm doesn't mean it is making boost. Throttle plate still has to open and bypass must shit and volume must be compressed. I don't know how fast that happens.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

The point was some people provided conflicting impressions of instantaneous throttle response.

I am not saying you can have as long of an intake pipe as you want and still get the same performance. I am saying that 1.5 feet of intake piping is probably not significantly different than 3 feet. Only way to find out is for someone to run a short ram intake onto the supercharger's throttle body.

If there are people saying there is no throttle response down low, it is not because of the mechanical parts of the kit or the 3 foot long intake pipe. It is because the tune may not be optimized yet. Mine sure wasn't at first. :happy0180:

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by calispec

One thing I am not families with is the bypass valve on the supercharger. Just because you spin the thing at 10k rpm doesn't mean it is making boost. Throttle plate still has to open and bypass must shit and volume must be compressed. I don't know how fast that happens.

There is a vacuum port on the bypass actuator. There is an internal spring keeping the valve in the closed postion. My measurements have shown it is a 2-3 psi spring.

The bypass is cracked open with vacuum on this port. On mine it looks like it is about 15-20% open at idle. I have no idea what it looks like on my car at cruising but it is supposed to be cracked open then as well.

It shuts once there isn't enough vacuum (about 4-6 inHg) to overpower the internal spring of the bypass actuator (ie when you open the throttlebody butterfly enough and reduce the vacuum in the pre-supercharger plenum). Once it is shut, it cannot open until there is enough vacuum again (the valve itself is a butterfly type and thus the boost in the manifold cannot push against it to open it).

[DarrenDriven]

Originally Posted by tech4pdx

Lol @NickFRS

We all make mistakes bud.. I showed Darren how to do a 180 on a freeway onramp. LOL. One bent rim, with a replacement on the way, and I'm still smiling!

I thought you were going to take me 180MPH on the freeway, not 180 degrees! LOL

[NickFRS]

here is a 2nd gear 3k RPM to 60 pull

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater
@xxscaxx

[tech4pdx]

Dude.. I was sweatin' balls right before I called PRE yesterday to get the diagnosis. It was a big relief to hear it was all good. Was worried I tweaked the subframe.. Even though that wasn't likely.

[DriftEm]

Originally Posted by calispec

Take anything to an extreme and you can sometimes stumble upon an answer. Imagine that intake tube were a mile long. The SC would have one hell of a time getting air into a motor. Try sucking through a 20 foot straw. Same story. Now try to blow through the same intake tube or straw. Volumetric flow rate will be significantly more. When sucking there can only ever be a pressure differential of 1 atmosphere all the while making the air less dense and reducing the mass flow rate. Going the other way you can pump as much pressure as the tube can hold while making the charge denser and increasing mass flow rate. Any turbo or supercharged application will try to limit the amount of restriction before the inlet. Most high HP turbo cars stick the turbo right through
the bumper with no filter.

One thing I am not families with is the bypass valve on the supercharger. Just because you spin the thing at 10k rpm doesn't mean it is making boost. Throttle plate still has to open and bypass must shit and volume must be compressed. I don't know how fast that happens.

But we are not talking about that extreme. We are talking about 1.5 feet. If 1.5 feet caused significant lag, GM would have designed a different intake.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by MattF

I have an aftermarket boost guage and I am seeing 10 at redline. I think the stock map sensor is only read to 5psi.

How are you guys getting 9-10 psi? Robi and I are seeing 7.5 psi max at redline here in CA sea level on the supplied pulley (He is now seeing 9.5-10 psi with the smaller pulley). No wonder your making 240-250 whp!!!! Now question is... how are you building more boost? lol

Here is Robi's regular and small pulley

[DriftEm]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

How are you guys getting 9-10 psi? Robi and I are seeing 7.5 psi max at redline here in CA sea level on the supplied pulley (He is now seeing 9.5-10 psi with the smaller pulley). No wonder your making 240-250 whp!!!! I was scratching my head. Now question is... how are you building more boost? lol

Maybe they got the 70mm in their kits, it would be interesting if they verify the size of their pulleys.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by DriftEm

Maybe they got the 70mm in their kits, it would be interesting if they verify the size of their pulleys.

To my knowledge Innovate doesn't have smaller pullies to ship out yet. =)

[tech4pdx]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

How are you guys getting 9-10 psi? Robi and I are seeing 7.5 psi max at redline here in CA sea level on the supplied pulley (He is now seeing 9.5-10 psi with the smaller pulley). No wonder your making 240-250 whp!!!! Now question is... how are you building more boost? lol

Here is Robi's regular and small pulley

I have no idea, but I'm curious to see how much more boost I make once I'm on a smaller pulley!

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

I am not saying you can have as long of an intake pipe as you want and still get the same performance. I am saying that 1.5 feet of intake piping is probably not significantly different than 3 feet. Only way to find out is for someone to run a short ram intake onto the supercharger's throttle body.

If there are people saying there is no throttle response down low, it is not because of the mechanical parts of the kit or the 3 foot long intake pipe. It is because the tune may not be optimized yet. Mine sure wasn't at first. :happy0180:

While the intake length does matter, the bigger point you are missing is the bends. Redirecting airflow is a huge penalty to pay relative to length of a runner. Trust me, I'm not making this up.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by DriftEm

But we are not talking about that extreme. We are talking about 1.5 feet. If 1.5 feet caused significant lag, GM would have designed a different intake.

With all due respect, you entirely missed his point and what the video was getting at. And I believe the new plumbing is almost 300% longer than stock, not insignificant if we ignore the difference in shape/routing. If you get a chance to play around w/ air velocities and volume, you'll begin to see a relationship to length and area and how they affect flow. You can DIY a flowbench and test this yourself at home. Or use a straw.

[DriftEm]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

With all due respect, you entirely missed his point and what the video was getting at. And I believe the new plumbing is almost 300% longer than stock, not insignificant if we ignore the difference in shape/routing. If you get a chance to play around w/ air velocities and volume, you'll begin to see a relationship to length and area and how they affect flow. You can DIY a flowbench and test this yourself at home. Or use a straw.

well, I'll be actually driving my car tomorrow with this kit with a proper tune, I'll let you now if there is a lag.