Subaru debuts 3rd gen Boxer

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by cyde01

nothing in depth. it was just a very preliminary first impression based on a first drive. and the two reviewers kinda contradicted each other, one wasn't pleased with the engine feel at wide open throttle while the other had no problems with it and thought it revved to 6500rpm quite nicely.

although there's no way to tell, your theory of it having to do with the intake heads makes sense. that would explain why despite all the improvements, the fb20 only makes the same amount of peak hp as the ej20 rather than more hp.

Are you talking bout this?
New Subaru 2.5L Engine
New Subaru Flat 4 Engine vol 2
New Subaru Flat 4 Engine vol 3

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Are you talking bout this?
New Subaru 2.5L Engine
New Subaru Flat 4 Engine vol 2
New Subaru Flat 4 Engine vol 3

In the 'Vol 2' link I saw this: "EE20が86.0×86.0mmで、ボアストローク比はEL15に近いことがわかる。"

EE20, same bore and stroke as the 3S (Which Yamaha did the heads on...). What were the details of that section?

Edit: But by going by the letter designation, I'm thinking this might have come before the EJ motor?

My comments were on the FB20/25 pics.

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by Dimman

In the 'Vol 2' link I saw this: "EE20が86.0×86.0mmで、ボアストローク比はEL15に近いことがわかる。"

EE20, same bore and stroke as the 3S (Which Yamaha did the heads on...). What were the details of that section?

Edit: But by going by the letter designation, I'm thinking this might have come before the EJ motor?

My comments were on the FB20/25 pics.

in that section they were just doing a comparison of the bore and stroke with other subaru engines, demonstrating that the new engine was a continuation of a trend toward longer stroke for improved efficiency and mid-range torque. the EE20 is a subaru turbo diesel engine that was released in 2008.

edit: by the way ichi-san, i already posted the vol 3 blog post in page 2 of this thread.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by cyde01

in that section they were just doing a comparison of the bore and stroke with other subaru engines, demonstrating that the new engine was a continuation of a trend toward longer stroke for improved efficiency and mid-range torque. the EE20 is a subaru turbo diesel engine that was released in 2008.

edit: by the way ichi-san, i already posted the vol 3 blog post in page 2 of this thread.

My bad... I should of check before posted that

[OldSkoolToys]

I found the latest rendering, I like it much better than the one posted earlier.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

I found the latest rendering, I like it much better than the one posted earlier.

[DAV5]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

prob. one thing for sure is, subaru's engine design is gettin closer & closer to Porsche. which I'm not saying that's bad, just nightmare to work on.

thats most likely because of the close work that Subaru and Porsche do together, i mean look at the b4 blitzen

[Dimman]

I'm going to re-post the link that one of the new guys threw up in another thread.
http://www.drive.subaru.com/Win11/itsWhatMakes.htm



A couple things I want to discuss. In this pic it shows that the cam carrier is not integral to the head anymore. They say it's done to reduce thickness and weight, but I'm not sure how I feel about it in terms of rigidity. I'm aware that the new finger followers can introduce side loads but don't know if this is significant to the cams/carrier. Or how much rpm would be needed for the carrier's rigidity to be an issue (assuming that it isn't as rigid as a one-piece head/cam carriers).

The second thing is an observation about what they are doing with the injector location. They are going from intake runner mounted injectors to cylinder head mounted injectors. This is the opposite of what Toyota did when going from the 7M to the JZ series. I don't think it'll be a huge issue but I just thought it was interesting that it's the opposite of what Toyota did over 15 years ago.

Finally, we haven't got any confirmation of a Toyota/Yamaha version of this head, particularly mention of the D4-S system. This is starting to get on my nerves. Is it rumour or just closely guarded?

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Is it rumour or just closely guarded?

If any government had Toyota guarding it's secrets, nothing would ever get out.

[Calais]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

If any government had Toyota guarding it's secrets, nothing would ever get out.

we need to get that guy from wikileaks onto the case he'll find something right?

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Calais

we need to get that guy from wikileaks onto the case he'll find something right?

You actually need a leak not the wikileaks founder. We've already had someone share transmission pics. What we want is someone from Yamaha who snagged pics of the head especially in regards to the D4-S system.

[Calais]

would be nice wouldnt it just a leak with photo evidence or some official info im going crazy listening to noobs spew the same old rumors day after day(and not even recent rumors too like 3 month old) rumors we've beaten to a stick and killed and then raised them from the dead again only to beat them with an even bigger stick

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I'm going to re-post the link that one of the new guys threw up in another thread.
http://www.drive.subaru.com/Win11/itsWhatMakes.htm



A couple things I want to discuss. In this pic it shows that the cam carrier is not integral to the head anymore. They say it's done to reduce thickness and weight, but I'm not sure how I feel about it in terms of rigidity. I'm aware that the new finger followers can introduce side loads but don't know if this is significant to the cams/carrier. Or how much rpm would be needed for the carrier's rigidity to be an issue (assuming that it isn't as rigid as a one-piece head/cam carriers).

The second thing is an observation about what they are doing with the injector location. They are going from intake runner mounted injectors to cylinder head mounted injectors. This is the opposite of what Toyota did when going from the 7M to the JZ series. I don't think it'll be a huge issue but I just thought it was interesting that it's the opposite of what Toyota did over 15 years ago.

Finally, we haven't got any confirmation of a Toyota/Yamaha version of this head, particularly mention of the D4-S system. This is starting to get on my nerves. Is it rumour or just closely guarded?

This photo. Its interesting to me and heres why. This makes perfect sense for a flexible platform, where you can do quite a few things from the basic head. This photo itself might be the confirmation for the d4s system we are looking for since the real important thing is cams and the actuation system, this can mean that the system can be incorporated in to the standard head rather than designing one from scratch sort of thing. Also if it needs more room all there needs is a larger cover.
Just my $0.02 (2¢)

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

This photo. Its interesting to me and heres why. This makes perfect sense for a flexible platform, where you can do quite a few things from the basic head. This photo itself might be the confirmation for the d4s system we are looking for since the real important thing is cams and the actuation system, this can mean that the system can be incorporated in to the standard head rather than designing one from scratch sort of thing. Also if it needs more room all there needs is a larger cover.
Just my $0.02 (2¢)

Damn, that was some good two cents. Sure that wasn't two dollars???

I never even thought of interchangeability! I was all Mr. Negative, thinking "That's something else that can get fubar'd on a carelessly torqued re-assembly."

Comparing a VVT-i JZ head to a non-VVT-i version, shows where this would come into effect. The VVT-i is only on the intake cam on the 2JZ and looking at the carriers/cams you can see that they are different (longer/more surface on the VVT-i side, I may throw up a pic later). Hell of a lot easier to swap out a separate carrier than recast a head.

This also means that they could have a wide range of valvetrain throughout the FB series for various cost/performance tradeoffs, from basic no-frills DOHC, to VVT-i (single or dual), to a lift component (VVTL-i), to Valvematic. That turns 2 different displacements into potentially 8-10 different variants, even before we speculate on forced induction.

Mmmm... modular.