Why do people do wild swaps(RB, LS1), when u can just buy a Porsche, Ferrari, etc?

[BadBRZ]

Thats like asking why rich people eat hamburgers when the could just have rib eye steaks from gourmet chefs for every meal...

[Lawn_Mower]

Originally Posted by BadBRZ

Thats like asking why rich people eat hamburgers when the could just have rib eye steaks from gourmet chefs for every meal...

Lol perfect analogy.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by fooddude

No I haven't.

Maybe it won't make it handle like super crap... but it won't have the same nice low COG anymore and you'll need to do months of study, research, development, testing and tuning of all suspension parts to make everything handle good after having new weights and positioning of the new engine.

Yes I agree, that is true of any modified car, original engine or not. But, a swapped stock motor won't necessarily be trouble free. Maybe it will be very reliable internally...but, there will still be probable issues down the road/build with mounts or design, positioning and fitment, chassis mods, drivetrain, engine harness and electrical, ecu, etc., etc.

Exactly how many engine swaps have you done?

I think your thoughts on exactly how much the handling will be compromised are heavily based on flawed ideas or pure speculation. Yes I know one of the selling points of the BRZ is its low center of gravity, but swapping in a motor that is at most 6" higher and weighs roughly the same isn't going to magically make the car handle like a SUV. There's no reason you couldn't apply the same research and parts that are already available to improve the handling, so I'm not sure why you think you'd need "months" of research to "fix" the handling.

Personally I'd never do an LS swap because that's the goto motor for engine swaps, but I can see the merits of such a swap.

Engine swaps can be fun... Like this:


Into the back of this:

[s2d4]

Why not start a thread on catbacks for NA guys then?

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by Malt

Exactly how many engine swaps have you done?

I think your thoughts on exactly how much the handling will be compromised are heavily based on flawed ideas or pure speculation.

....but swapping in a motor that is at most 6" higher and weighs roughly the same isn't going to magically make the car handle like a SUV.

B18a engine in my EG in the early-mid 90s, when it wasn't popular yet. Then, one of the first ones to swap a B16 head on top of it. Then changed a few engine bits on it - cams, int manifold, etc. Then after, S13 with SR engine. But granted...those were more or less stock engines in japanland (except the LS/B18a block, which is the same dimensions anyways). Rode in some other cars with bigger engines in the 90s, including a friend's EG with an F22...went fast straight, but rode like crap like a pickup truck.

I really doubt a V8, or an RB, or a JZ will weight the same as the stock FA, lol! And imo, it will ride like a pickup trunk, just with better suspension than a truck - super heavy in the front, light in the rear like a truck bed lol.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by fooddude

B18a engine in my EG in the early-mid 90s, when it wasn't popular yet. Then, one of the first ones to swap a B16 head on top of it. Then changed a few engine bits on it - cams, int manifold, etc. Then after, S13 with SR engine. But granted...those were more or less stock engines in japanland (except the LS/B18a block, which is the same dimensions anyways). Rode in some other cars with bigger engines in the 90s, including a friend's EG with an F22...went fast straight, but rode like crap like a pickup truck.

I really doubt a V8, or an RB, or a JZ will weight the same as the stock FA, lol! And imo, it will ride like a pickup trunk, just with better suspension than a truck - super heavy in the front, light in the rear like a truck bed lol.

A fully dressed LS3 weighs 418 lbs. I don't know the exact weight of a FA20 but it cant be significantly less than that. Adding at most 30-40 lbs (and I'm being VERY generous here) to the front of the car isn't going to make it handle like a truck.

EDIT: Also, I'd say that 430hp/430lbft is WELL worth the tiny bit of added weight while staying NA and have an essentially bullet proof engine.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Malt

A fully dressed LS3 weighs 418 lbs. I don't know the exact weight of a FA20 but it cant be significantly less than that. Adding at most 30-40 lbs (and I'm being VERY generous here) to the front of the car isn't going to make it handle like a truck.

EDIT: Also, I'd say that 430hp/430lbft is WELL worth the tiny bit of added weight while staying NA and have an essentially bullet proof engine.

Exactly a 6.2 liter V8 LS3 engine weighs less than 2.0 liter BMW engine IIRC,

German engineering my ass

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

How about a Porsche Turbo Flat-4?

http://wot.motortrend.com/1406_we_he...10_360_hp.html



10 years from now that could be a reasonable/functional/unique swap assuming it fits.

reasonable?
you know the fact that a new Cayman engine costs about $22k and GT3 engine about $35k right? ( vs a new LS3 withGM warranty about $5-6k) I highly doubt any Porsche engine can be purchased less than $15k

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by glamcem

reasonable?
you know the fact that a new Cayman engine costs about $22k and GT3 engine about $35k right? ( vs a new LS3 withGM warranty about $5-6k) I highly doubt any Porsche engine can be purchased less than $15k

I never suggested buying the long block new. 10 years from now there will be used wrecks ripe for picking.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

I never suggested buying the long block new. 10 years from now there will be used wrecks ripe for picking.

Hopefully in 10 years there will be vehicles with powertrains like the Porsche 918 for sale at a reasonable price. No one will be looking at our puny engines

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Malt

Hopefully in 10 years there will be vehicles with powertrains like the Porsche 918 for sale at a reasonable price. No one will be looking at our puny engines

Either that or the Electric superchargers

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

I never suggested buying the long block new. 10 years from now there will be used wrecks ripe for picking.

Even the used Porsche engines are not that cheap and I'm not sure if it would be an easy swap since the motor is designed for mid/rear placement.. I think a fully built high revving engine with a modest FI or a race engine still would be cheaper when all are calculated..

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Even the used Porsche engines are not that cheap and I'm not sure if it would be an easy swap since the motor is designed for mid/rear placement.. I think a fully built high revving engine with a modest FI or a race engine still would be cheaper when all are calculated..

It was really just wishful thinking to begin with under the assumption the motor would even fit. Of course a built FA20 with FI would make better sense.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by chiefshayan

I think I've heard this saying around this forum, but it's cool to BUILD a unique car that not everyone has, instead of going out and buying a car that thousands can go down to their local dealership and pick up. Goes along with the quote "Built, not bought". Any rich dweeb can purchase a vette or a 997, but to swap the engine, change ECU's, change trans, and even manufacture your own parts, to me, is the coolest thing a car-guy can do.

When I see a v8 swapped miata, or a 2j IS 250, I stand back and am in awe of the serious man-hours behind these builds.

Just my 0.02

Problem is that most of the built cars on this forum are not built by the owner. They are built by shops and the only thing the owner is doing is opening the checkbook or dropping the credit card. To me that kind of takes the "pride" out of building something different. You might as well buy something from the factory that is going to have a warranty, be reliable and most likely be of better overall quality.

These shop built cars are the ones that will be for sale at a huge loss within a year of being completed because they seldom live up to expectations and there is no personal investment in the vehicle other than money on the part of the guy that owns the car.

I know there are a few that are actually doing the work and paying the tab and I have to give those guys props. For the rest, they would be better off buying the right car in the first place.