Wider wheels: need an alignment?

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Given that an alignment costs about $100 and tires cost about $600-$800/set, I'll take my chances with the alignment still being good after a few weeks. There's no way (without crashing into something) that it'll be out by enough that the $100 spent on an alignment isn't a total waste.

I've never gotten an alignment after new tires or rims unless considerable miles have already been racked up. I also swap between summers and winters every season change.

I don't disagree that it's a good idea to get it checked, but to do it 2 times a year when I put on less than 5K miles a year on my car, that'd be a waste of time and money. That said, I do pay attention to my treadwear and if I start to see any uneven wear patterns, you can bet I'll have my alignment checked. It's not like these things are mutually exclusive - one can always get an alignment done if things aren't looking right. No need to do it every time just to be "safe".

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by Foobar

I've never gotten an alignment after new tires or rims unless considerable miles have already been racked up. I also swap between summers and winters every season change.

I don't disagree that it's a good idea to get it checked, but to do it 2 times a year when I put on less than 5K miles a year on my car, that'd be a waste of time and money. That said, I do pay attention to my treadwear and if I start to see any uneven wear patterns, you can bet I'll have my alignment checked. It's not like these things are mutually exclusive - one can always get an alignment done if things aren't looking right. No need to do it every time just to be "safe".

We as professionals always have to advocate every precaution to consumers since its better to inform to others the possibilities. Ultimately it boils down to personal choice and decision. But at least we informed of possible scenarios which we believe allows consumers to make better sound judgements. Because unfortunately, not everyone exercises the same caution and care on their vehicles...

[blue cat]

I had a new set of wider wheels put on recently and needed an alignment after. The car was pulling very slightly left before the new wheels, and became much more noticeable after they were installed. Car has done around 10,000 kms and alignment readouts showed it had toe in on the right side, and toe out on the left. Obviously the car came like that from the factory, but changing the wheels definitely made the steering feel worse. So i'd say if you feel like you need an alignment after, then get one.

My two cents.

[wparsons]

To be fair though, you needed one before. The change of wheels/tires didn't mess up the alignment, just made it more noticeable.

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by wparsons

To be fair though, you needed one before. The change of wheels/tires didn't mess up the alignment, just made it more noticeable.

But to the general public who dont really notice or pay attention until they notice tires are worn unevenly, they are out of a set of tires. And as manufacturers, they receive countless claims trying to say that the tires were bad when clearly it is resulting from no alignment after tire swap... So would a blanket overkill statement to recommend alignment after each tire swap be necessary for the general public? I would imagine that to be the responsible thing to advocate even if the vehicle conscious crowd feels its overkill....

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

But to the general public who dont really notice or pay attention until they notice tires are worn unevenly, they are out of a set of tires. And as manufacturers, they receive countless claims trying to say that the tires were bad when clearly it is resulting from no alignment after tire swap... So would a blanket overkill statement to recommend alignment after each tire swap be necessary for the general public? I would imagine that to be the responsible thing to advocate even if the vehicle conscious crowd feels its overkill....

And this is why I can't stand most service advisers. Who cares what you suggest to people that have no clue and actually need the service done, why would you suggest the same thing to a person who is clearly more into their vehicle than the average driver AND would have had an alignment just a couple weeks prior? It's the blanket statements that are really just used hoping people fall for the bait and pay for something they don't need.

Bit of a story...

Four years ago a Toyota service adviser told my wife her camry needed new pads/rotors all around, I told her eff them, just get the part numbers and we'll buy parts somewhere else and I would replace them. She grabs the parts on the way home and I go look at the car. Two HUGE mistakes by the service department.

1) They gave part numbers for a V6 (rear discs), her car is the I4 with rear drums.

2) When I pulled the front wheels off the pads had at least 75% of the material left. So much that 4 years later they're still not down to the squealer bar on the original pads.

I called the service adviser asking how they could be so off base and his answer was basically "well the car is a few years old, we just assumed they would need to be done". They didn't look at the odometer to see how many km's were on the car or even look at the brakes, but they *knew* that it needed pads/rotors at all corners.

I've had mechanics tell me I needed to flush my transmission fluid in previous cars just days after I personally flushed and filled the transmission with new fluid, when I asked what car they pulled the dirty fluid from they finally confessed it was just old engine oil.

I had a tail light replaced under warranty because it was growing a storm cloud inside it and the tech suggested I replace my brake pads because the brakes squeaked a bit when he pulled the car in and they were worn out. I had JUST put my new pads in like a week earlier, again they didn't even pull a wheel off just assumed because it squeaked they were worn out. When I asked the service adviser how much pad material was left he backed down, then asked how I was so confident they were fine.

I'm not saying all shops are like this, but throwing out blanket statements like you always need an alignment when changing tires angers me beyond belief. Tailor the advice to the situation, it's WAY better customer service.

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by wparsons

And this is why I can't stand most service advisers. Who cares what you suggest to people that have no clue and actually need the service done, why would you suggest the same thing to a person who is clearly more into their vehicle than the average driver AND would have had an alignment just a couple weeks prior? It's the blanket statements that are really just used hoping people fall for the bait and pay for something they don't need.
I'm not saying all shops are like this, but throwing out blanket statements like you always need an alignment when changing tires angers me beyond belief. Tailor the advice to the situation, it's WAY better customer service.

If the OP had an idea then he would not be asking the question of doing alignment after suspension when clearly he also pointed out he had the opportunity to wait it out to have the new wheels and tires on as well and do it the alignment after all in one shot....

Which means if you could wait to have all components including wheels and tires put on and then do alignment, why not? What's the rush? Why leave a variable and possible future problem to chance? Why recommend otherwise? It's just simple common sense...

Which brings back to blanket statements... They are made not with the intent to milk you out of your hard earned money... Its meant for people to take notice and use their own common sense and judgement. It's like warning labels on cigarettes... It's there to let people know what potentially can happen and for them exercise their own judgement... Or even using electronic equipment on airplanes during take off... Blanket statements exist for a reason... Try have the stewardess apply and tailor no electronic equipment usage during takeoff policy to each of the 500 passengers on a plane for each flight and I'm sure it will be chaos...

Which in your case I feel bad you had a lot of bad experiences with mechanics...and perhaps hence your negative perception towards mechanics. Partly to blame is the fact that the repair industry has gotten too reliant on following sop that they forget how to think and solve problems and become part swappers...and of course the consumer foots the bill. But on the flip side, consumers are so blame happy that they tend to blame the problems on mechanics without asking themselves if they are also part of the problem... Especially in the age where lawsuits are filed on a whim, are consumers every bit a contributor to the plethora of warning labels, recommendations, and policies put in place? Unless consumers exercise the same type of restraint and common sense, manufacturers, installers, and related products and services have no choice but place blanket statements and policies in place to protect from lawsuit happy consumers that needed only a bit of common sense to avoid problems in the first place....

One example with wheels and tires. The hella flush movement. Tire manufacturers and wheel manufacturers always recommend to have wheels fitted with a certain range of tire sizes. However, consumers disregard this and stretch on the skinniest tire possible. While we dont condone this and recommend it, consumers will do what they want. But all it takes is one kid to get in an accident from this and have their parents decide to sue the manufacturers, the installer, the wheel manufacturer because they didnt label or warn the consumer enough.... And at that point another blanket warning pops up... ( BTW, the OP's stock 215/45R17 tires are not recommended on 17x9 wheels... only recommended on 7-8 widths which further deviates from factory settings)

As for shop experiences, similarly, I've had situations like yours... But I've also had mechanics that gave me sound advice and saved me a ton of money... It's like any profession where there will be good guys and there will be unethical ones...

So while you may be the one out of every 100 individuals that can think like a mechanic and exercise common sense, blanket statements are intended to protect the rest of the public from themselves... Give them recommendations and for them to think for themselves...its not intended to steer unsuspecting public to paying more than they should.. Because let's face it, a world without blanket statements or policies or warnings would be chaotic...and blanket statements and policies exist because we the general public perpetuate their existence.