Wider wheels: need an alignment?

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

Alignments can go out of whack fairly easily... Just because you did one 3 months ago does not mean its still sound... all it takes is a pothole or hitting a curb to do so...

But it has nothing to do with getting new wheels or tires. Get your car aligned if it is out of alignment, not because you got a new set of donks.

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by raul

It may not be your source, but you did encourage the previous poster to look in the Internet for information regarding your recommendations.

Encouraging others to do their research via the internet as it is probably the easiest thing for the average consumer. However our information is based on our working with alignment shops over the years, contrary to what the poster was insinuating. Thank you.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

Alignments can go out of whack fairly easily... Just because you did one 3 months ago does not mean its still sound... all it takes is a pothole or hitting a curb to do so...

As to recommendations, one of the easier source to help most people find out other than asking alignment shops can find some useful information through tire rack... here is their take( no affliation) Hope the information is helpful to others:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4

While it's often referred to simply as an "alignment" or "wheel alignment," it's really complex suspension angles that are being measured and a variety of suspension components that are being adjusted. This makes an alignment an important suspension-tuning tool that greatly influences the operation of the vehicle's tires.

Out-of-alignment conditions occur when the suspension and steering systems are not operating at their desired angles. Out-of-alignment conditions are most often caused by spring sag or suspension wear (ball joints, bushings, etc.) on an older vehicle. They can also be the result of an impact with a pothole or curb, or a change in vehicle ride height (lowered or raised) on any vehicle regardless of age.

Incorrect alignment settings will usually result in more rapid tire wear. Therefore, alignment should be checked whenever new tires or suspension components are installed, and any time unusual tire wear patterns appear. Alignment should also be checked after the vehicle has encountered a major road hazard or curb.

Alignment Ranges

The vehicle manufacturers' alignment specifications usually identify a "preferred" angle for camber, caster and toe (with preferred thrust angle always being zero). The manufacturers also provide the acceptable "minimum" and "maximum" angles for each specification. The minimum and maximum camber and caster specifications typically result in a range that remains within plus or minus 1-degree of the preferred angle.

If for whatever reason your vehicle can't reach within the acceptable range, replacing bent parts or an aftermarket alignment kit will be required. Fortunately there is a kit for almost every popular vehicle due to the needs of body and frame shops doing crash repairs and driving enthusiasts tuning the suspensions on their cars.

Recommendations

An accurate wheel alignment is critical to balance the treadwear and performance a vehicle's tires deliver. Regular wheel alignments will usually save you as much in tire wear as they cost, and should be considered routine, preventative maintenance. Since there are "acceptable" ranges provided in the manufacturer's recommendations, the technician should be encouraged to align the vehicle to the preferred settings and not just within the range.

If you are a reserved driver, aligning your vehicle to the vehicle manufacturer's preferred settings is appropriate.

If you are an assertive driver who enjoys driving hard through the corners and expressway ramps, a performance alignment is appropriate for your car. A performance alignment consists of using the vehicle manufacturer's range of alignment specifications to maximize the tires' performance. A performance alignment calls for the manufacturer's maximum negative camber, maximum positive caster, and preferred toe settings. While remaining within the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations, these alignment settings will maximize tire performance.

If you are a competition driver who frequently runs autocross, track or road race events, you'll typically want the maximum negative camber, maximum positive caster and most aggressive toe settings available from the car and permitted by the competition rules. If the rules permit, aftermarket camber plates and caster adjustments are good investments.

Many of today's alignment machines are equipped with printouts that compare the "before" and "after" alignment angles with the manufacturers' specifications. Requesting a post alignment printout can help you confirm the thoroughness of the alignment technician and preserve a record of your vehicle's intended settings in the case of an encounter with a suspension damaging road hazard.

You have bigger problems than an alignment if you hit a curb.

Please, tell me. How does an alignment go out of whack, when there is zero adjustability in the alignment from the factory, except for rear toe.

You've yet to address my previous post as well.


Nice plagiarism from TireRack by the way. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

Encouraging others to do their research via the internet as it is probably the easiest thing for the average consumer. However our information is based on our working with alignment shops over the years, contrary to what the poster was insinuating. Thank you.

Whatever people were insinuating, alignment shops are trying to sell their service. They're going to "recommend" it in every case they can possibly convince someone it makes sense, with facts or otherwise. I don't think you have any mal intent, but in this case I don't think you're giving the best advice, either.

It just doesn't make sense. You aren't defining the timing that would make alignments necessary at all. Every pothole could knock it out of alignment you say. So, instead of every time we get new wheels, should we go back for an alignment every day? What if we don't ever buy new wheels, do we never align the car?

Cars don't often get "knocked" out of alignment. Camber bolts are very unlikely to slip (plus we don't even have them), toe couldn't possibly slip and we don't have adjustable caster. A bad alignment is almost always the result of an accident or just general fatigue (stretching, deflection, whateve) in the parts over a long period of time.

Educate yourselves, people. If it's been a while, if you've had the struts off for some reason and might not have put them back exactly the same, if you've lowered your car or if you want better performance (and understand what alignment specs you want), have your car aligned. But don't get talked in to spending the time and money for the wrong reasons.

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by qoncept

Whatever people were insinuating, alignment shops are trying to sell their service. They're going to "recommend" it in every case they can possibly convince someone it makes sense, with facts or otherwise. I don't think you have any mal intent, but in this case I don't think you're giving the best advice, either.

It just doesn't make sense. You aren't defining the timing that would make alignments necessary at all. Every pothole could knock it out of alignment you say. So, instead of every time we get new wheels, should we go back for an alignment every day? What if we don't ever buy new wheels, do we never align the car?

Cars don't often get "knocked" out of alignment. Camber bolts are very unlikely to slip (plus we don't even have them), toe couldn't possibly slip and we don't have adjustable caster. A bad alignment is almost always the result of an accident or just general fatigue (stretching, deflection, whateve) in the parts over a long period of time.

Educate yourselves, people. If it's been a while, if you've had the struts off for some reason and might not have put them back exactly the same, if you've lowered your car or if you want better performance (and understand what alignment specs you want), have your car aligned. But don't get talked in to spending the time and money for the wrong reasons.

No problems here. Again, people do things differently and can decide what they want to do. Thank you.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

Alignments can go out of whack fairly easily... Just because you did one 3 months ago does not mean its still sound... all it takes is a pothole or hitting a curb to do so...

Might as well just tell people to get an alignment with every oil change then... or how about with every tank of gas?

[John.Hong]

You guys do realize that if you have any experience in the automotive technology field, the safety protocols they teach is that an alignment is not required of course but highly recommended after tire change. Understandable why people think that a simple wheel change wont do anything to the suspension geometry because you're not touching the "suspension parts".

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Might as well just tell people to get an alignment with every oil change then... or how about with every tank of gas?

good one! new tires would be enough

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Nice plagiarism from TireRack by the way. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4

Thank you commenting without seeing my post that shows my reference to Tire rack as a source Appreciate it.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by John.Hong

You guys do realize that if you have any experience in the automotive technology field, the safety protocols they teach is that an alignment is not required of course but highly recommended after tire change. Understandable why people think that a simple wheel change wont do anything to the suspension geometry because you're not touching the "suspension parts".

This whole thread started with the OP asking if he NEEDED an alignment after replacing wheels/tires, or if he got one after replacing his suspension parts and got new wheels a few weeks later if it would still be ok.

As a couple people (myself included) have already stated, if you haven't had alignment in years or 50k miles (80k km's), then you're due for one, but just the action of changing wheels/tires does not automatically mean you need an alignment. Further to that, with almost no adjustment from the factory, what exactly is an alignment going to do on these cars? The only thing that can be adjusted without buying aftermarket parts is front and rear toe.

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

good one! new tires would be enough

But you said when you change wheels or tires you need an alignment...

[John.Hong]

Originally Posted by wparsons

This whole thread started with the OP asking if he NEEDED an alignment after replacing wheels/tires, or if he got one after replacing his suspension parts and got new wheels a few weeks later if it would still be ok.

As a couple people (myself included) have already stated, if you haven't had alignment in years or 50k miles (80k km's), then you're due for one, but just the action of changing wheels/tires does not automatically mean you need an alignment. Further to that, with almost no adjustment from the factory, what exactly is an alignment going to do on these cars? The only thing that can be adjusted without buying aftermarket parts is front and rear toe.



But you said when you change wheels or tires you need an alignment...

I understand what the OP was asking (not meaning to continue the threadjack) and i also understand what you're saying. Yes for the majority of people an alignment is not required at all after a simple tire change. What the purpose of my post was to point out the fact that it actually is a safety protocol that is taught in the beginning level of automotive tech. People who get the recommendation to get alignment after tire change might think they are just trying to scam money out of customers when in reality its a safety thing. Believe it or not, there are cases where brand new tires wear our abnormally fast because of misalignment after a simple tire change. Just stating the fact.

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by wparsons

This whole thread started with the OP asking if he NEEDED an alignment after replacing wheels/tires, or if he got one after replacing his suspension parts and got new wheels a few weeks later if it would still be ok.

As a couple people (myself included) have already stated, if you haven't had alignment in years or 50k miles (80k km's), then you're due for one, but just the action of changing wheels/tires does not automatically mean you need an alignment. Further to that, with almost no adjustment from the factory, what exactly is an alignment going to do on these cars? The only thing that can be adjusted without buying aftermarket parts is front and rear toe.



But you said when you change wheels or tires you need an alignment...

Yes. and we still believe that to be the case... If you review the original question... OP indicated if he should just wait for suspension drop along with tires and wheels altogether to do the alignment. As he is already deviating from factory settings, it is better to recommend him to do suspension drop and new wheels and tires together and then alignment as an optimal recommendation. what many are saying is to do the alignment with suspension only and it wouldnt matter with new wheels and tires... While it may not be mandatory, we recommend doing alignment after all is done. As to just changing tires, it is indeed industry protocol to recommend alignment after swap to new tires... and we still stand behind it...Thats simply because from a manufacturers perspective, it is always better to provide preventative advice rather than the possibility of uneven wear further down the road. And if there are individuals who think it is overkill, so be it. However, overkill might be the difference between having to prematurely buy a new set of tires and lightening up your wallet..

[wparsons]

Given that an alignment costs about $100 and tires cost about $600-$800/set, I'll take my chances with the alignment still being good after a few weeks. There's no way (without crashing into something) that it'll be out by enough that the $100 spent on an alignment isn't a total waste.

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Given that an alignment costs about $100 and tires cost about $600-$800/set, I'll take my chances with the alignment still being good after a few weeks. There's no way (without crashing into something) that it'll be out by enough that the $100 spent on an alignment isn't a total waste.

Yes, and that is entirely up to you. However, I think it's better to indicate and provide all available options to the consumer so that they can make their own decisions based on the conditions they subject their vehicles to.