Dyno Results From OFT Stage 2+ and engine back exhause. Underwhelming?

[wparsons]

OP, are you sure you're running the right OTS tune? It shouldn't have a torque dip like that at all.

Originally Posted by 86MLR

E tunes are a compromise which should only be made if you have absolutely no way of getting to a dyno.

I've driven over 2k km round trips to get my car tuned by my preferred tuner, on a dyno.

There are a number of VERY reputable tuners that get great results without the car ever seeing a dyno... I know of a few that do the vast majority of their tuning, even in person, on the road. Tuning to hit a specific number can be a very dangerous game, people will ignore safety margins just to get an extra couple hp, and it's just not worth it.

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Eh, its not my money they spend so it never concerned me personally. I mean you could have bought a better car and not had to mod it at all right? It would have been cheaper in the long run, and yet..

Anyway, I think I'll just search for a well known Ecutek tuner in a decent driving range. I've seen a guy with $2600 into his setup between a fancy header, Ecutek e-tune and Flexfuel just to throw down 182hp on the local dynojet when a OFT user with a OTS tune made similar on the same dyno. I'd be pissed.

You can make a dyno read whatever you want it to... what's important is a few baseline pulls and a few after, ideally in similar weather, on the same dyno with the same settings. The absolute numbers mean nothing if the settings and weather aren't consistent.

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Even E-tunes? Ive seen several people go through many revisions with Ecuteck, to finally hit the dyno with disappointing numbers. Only after getting tuned on a dyno they reached the potential of the mods the car had. It has honesty held me back from making the switch to a Flexfuel Ecutek setup which in its self can run north of $1500. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance.

Flexfuel is 100% worth it if you're going to run e85. Chances are very good that it's rarely ever actually 85% ethanol, so having the ECA and flex fuel tune properly handle the ethanol content is much better. It's also much more convenient not having to run the tank to empty and reflash every time you want to change fuels.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

E tunes are a compromise which should only be made if you have absolutely no way of getting to a dyno.

I've driven over 2k km round trips to get my car tuned by my preferred tuner, on a dyno.

The tune is the most important part of any performance upgrade

It beats me why people spend thousands on rims or useless cosmetic mods (body kits), but cheap out with a OFT and/or E Tunes.

Absolutely disagree. While e-tunes are not viable on all platforms, on this platform, it is 100% viable. Will you get 100% of the gains you can on a dyno tune that is looking for every bit of power available? No. Will you get 99% of the gains for less than 10% of the cost of hunting for every last bit of power? Yes.

A mediocre dyno tune is no better than a mediocre e-tune.

Likewise, dyno tunes have even LESS value with this platform due to the slow flash speed, and lack of live tuning. I can do more revisions on Motec in 20 minutes than I can with 8 hours on OFT/Ecutek with this car.

[Lantanafrs2]

I would trust an etune from a proven source. Only a proven source though. Lots of problems with these things during the beta years of 12 and 13. I would want someone who went through that and learned the hard way

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Even E-tunes? Ive seen several people go through many revisions with Ecuteck, to finally hit the dyno with disappointing numbers. Only after getting tuned on a dyno they reached the potential of the mods the car had. It has honesty held me back from making the switch to a Flexfuel Ecutek setup which in its self can run north of $1500. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance.

Yes, even e-tunes. We see this question pop up regularly and a good e-tune from someone who has done a bunch will be better than a dyno shop that has seen "a few". In many cases we find cars that were fine tuned on the dyno come in with learned ignition timings of -5 degrees or more, and they run quite a bit less power in the real world than on the dyno. So while dyno tuning can help find additional power on unique setups, the real world effects of knock learning and fuel trims will often pull that power right out if not done properly. I'd rather take a car that runs 185 HP every time than one that does 192 on the dyno once or twice, then 175 hp thereafter.

Ideally what we do is get some datalogs/remote tuning ahead of time, fine tune on the dyno, and then revise the data logs again some time later. This really lets you get the most consistent performance possible.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Absolutely disagree. While e-tunes are not viable on all platforms, on this platform, it is 100% viable. Will you get 100% of the gains you can on a dyno tune that is looking for every bit of power available? No. Will you get 99% of the gains for less than 10% of the cost of hunting for every last bit of power? Yes.

A mediocre dyno tune is no better than a mediocre e-tune.

Likewise, dyno tunes have even LESS value with this platform due to the slow flash speed, and lack of live tuning. I can do more revisions on Motec in 20 minutes than I can with 8 hours on OFT/Ecutek with this car.

Of course any muppet can say they tune, it's up to the buyer to research this.

Me, I find the best tuner for my platform, my tuner has over 20 years experience with Subaru, and was at the inception of Ecutek.

I like the safety of the dyno, doing pulls on the street can be hazardous, and if something is off mid pull the run can be terminated.

I admit there is pros and cons for each, as well as marketing, people want to sell you stuff, they will tell you it's the better than sliced bread, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, again, it's up to the buyer to research what is best for their budget.

Stand alone ECU's are a totally different story, my preference would be Haltech, local, excellent support, tried and tested, but, does the average owner with bolt ons need one? I acknowledge that a standalone is much much better than a OFT or Ecutek.

Opinions may vary

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Of course any muppet can say they tune, it's up to the buyer to research this.

Me, I find the best tuner for my platform, my tuner has over 20 years experience with Subaru, and was at the inception of Ecutek.

I like the safety of the dyno, doing pulls on the street can be hazardous, and if something is off mid pull the run can be terminated.

I admit there is pros and cons for each, as well as marketing, people want to sell you stuff, they will tell you it's the better than sliced bread, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, again, it's up to the buyer to research what is best for their budget.

Stand alone ECU's are a totally different story, my preference would be Haltech, local, excellent support, tried and tested, but, does the average owner with bolt ons need one? I acknowledge that a standalone is much much better than a OFT or Ecutek.

Opinions may vary

All the EJ experience in the world means absolutely nothing when tuning the FA, whether DIT or not!

It's similar to saying you have 20 years of tuning carburetors, and that makes you an expert at tuning fuel injection systems.

This is fact, not opinion.

Likewise, just how you can abort a pull on a dyno, you can also abort a pull on the road or circuit. Then again, with any sort of proven base map, you really shouldn't ever be so far off that you or the tuner needs to abort a pull.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

All the EJ experience in the world means absolutely nothing when tuning the FA, whether DIT or not!

It's similar to saying you have 20 years of tuning carburetors, and that makes you an expert at tuning fuel injection systems.

This is fact, not opinion.

Likewise, just how you can abort a pull on a dyno, you can also abort a pull on the road or circuit. Then again, with any sort of proven base map, you really shouldn't ever be so far off that you or the tuner needs to abort a pull.

I take it you don't know Paul Fisher from Pulse Racing, here in Australia, or his back ground, or experience, well done there.

Your "fact" appears to be opinion.

Me, I don't tune, hell, I don't even play race car driver anymore, all I do now is pay cash, I do want, and get, the best for my dollar.

Anyway, you do it your way, I'll do it mine, free world and all.

I use and recommend > https://www.facebook.com/PulseRacingWorkshop/

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I take it you don't know Paul Fisher from Pulse Racing, here in Australia, or his back ground, or experience, well done there.

Your "fact" appears to be opinion.

Me, I don't tune, hell, I don't even play race car driver anymore, all I do now is pay cash, I do want, and get, the best for my dollar.

Anyway, you do it your way, I'll do it mine, free world and all.

I use and recommend > https://www.facebook.com/PulseRacingWorkshop/

DI =/= PI =/= D4S

no opinion there, but if you're not open to learning, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm sure Pulse did a great job on your car, but that's a testament to their ability and willingness to learn new systems, not their past experience.

[86MLR]

Yeah, past experience counts for nothing....

[steve99]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Absolutely disagree. While e-tunes are not viable on all platforms, on this platform, it is 100% viable. Will you get 100% of the gains you can on a dyno tune that is looking for every bit of power available? No. Will you get 99% of the gains for less than 10% of the cost of hunting for every last bit of power? Yes.

A mediocre dyno tune is no better than a mediocre e-tune.

Likewise, dyno tunes have even LESS value with this platform due to the slow flash speed, and lack of live tuning. I can do more revisions on Motec in 20 minutes than I can with 8 hours on OFT/Ecutek with this car.

I made up a test tune with ecutek and using the Ecutek blutooth interface inputs can vary Target AFR , ignition timing and intake and exhaust cam timing all independantly and in real time. Works well. Then you can just transfer what you learnt back into the finished tune. Not as fast as motec but way faster than flashing in individual changes and testing.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by steve99

I made up a test tune with ecutek and using the Ecutek blutooth interface inputs can vary Target AFR , ignition timing and intake and exhaust cam timing all independantly and in real time. Works well. Then you can just transfer what you learnt back into the finished tune. Not as fast as motec but way faster than flashing in individual changes and testing.

Much better than what was available before, but unfortunately, my particular car falls victim to the ECU shutdown bug, so not viable for me

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Yeah, past experience counts for nothing....

Let's use a different example. It's like saying because you're great at Golf, you're automatically going to be great at baseball. They're both sports where you swing a stick at a ball, right?

If you spend the time to be great at both...

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Let's use a different example. It's like saying because you're great at Golf, you're automatically going to be great at baseball. They're both sports where you swing a stick at a ball, right?

If you spend the time to be great at both...

LOL, yeap, exactly the same thing

[steve99]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Much better than what was available before, but unfortunately, my particular car falls victim to the ECU shutdown bug, so not viable for me

Is that on 2017+ cars only ?? Was it fixed in racerom 10.1 ver 33571 ?