Gravel Roads

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Nobody said it was "based on" the Legacy we said it was the mule to demonstrate proof of concept.
Parts bin parts are used all the time and do not indicate common design in any way. To use your own standard response If you knew anything about parts manufacturing you would know this.
They didn't need to modify the tunnel nor move the starter to make things fit. The design accounted for these in the new platform. Where the hell did you even come up with that malarkey?
Subaru doesn't design new platforms for one model? Everything they have ever made is built on their very first design? Jesus dude you have not one single clue about such things do you?

Well, so sorry to inform you, but you're wrong yet again. The current Impreza and the BRZ are both built on a heavily modified version of that Legacy platform. Subaru basically carried over the front strut (reversing the LCA in the case of the BRZ and fitting a more vertical strut, though the geometry is essentially unchanged) and put an existing rear subframe and suspension developed for the Tribeca, apparently, under the rear. For 2018 Subaru has announced that all of their cars will be built on one platform as is the trend these days due to the enormous cost of compliance with structural integrity regulations around the world. Every manufacturer is trying to cut design, development and construction costs of the platforms by making one do every job.

The BRZ is "just" a two door Impreza. The Forester is "just" a crossover version of the Impreza. The new BRZ, if we are lucky, will be just the two door sports coupe version of the outback.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WRBrzRX

instead of getting immediately defensive and moving the goalposts, read this slowly. I'm going to be nice and type it all out for you:

2 minutes in. Hiroshi Watahiki. Engineering Division. Says QUOTE:

"We overhauled every aspect of the car in what was the first time we had undertaken such a challenge of this scale in 20 years since the 1st generation Legacy. We have completely redesigned the engine, transmission, platform and upper body– in fact, every aspect of the car."

UNQUOTE.

2:40 : Newly Developed Platform. Keep watching if you'd like?

This was the content that we all gobbled up waiting for the car to come out 6 years ago. Many of us know it inside and out along with all of the other development and teaser videos. This one's called Engineer's Story and is the second best.

Stop inventing stuff.

Originally Posted by Gforce

Except that Toyota didn't design the BRZ. And Toyota bought into Subaru well before the BRZ was announced, so not a totally unrelated company. As for the BMW connection with Toyota well, we should wait and see what that unlikely joint venture produces before we get too carried away. Toyota needs no help from BMW in the powerplant department.

The current Impreza and BRZ were developed at the same time and from a substantially modified Legacy platform. The rear suspension and subframe are essentially identical between the two and of different origin to that of the Legacy which continues with its own subframe and suspension until next year when Subaru will be building all of its cars on a new multi car platform. That's when we'll find out what the new BRZ will look like, if there is one.

Even with official video evidence you still hold your ground eh? Unbelievable.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Well, so sorry to inform you, but you're wrong yet again. The current Impreza and the BRZ are both built on a heavily modified version of that Legacy platform. Subaru basically carried over the front strut (reversing the LCA in the case of the BRZ and fitting a more vertical strut, though the geometry is essentially unchanged) and put an existing rear subframe and suspension developed for the Tribeca, apparently, under the rear. For 2018 Subaru has announced that all of their cars will be built on one platform as is the trend these days due to the enormous cost of compliance with structural integrity regulations around the world. Every manufacturer is trying to cut design, development and construction costs of the platforms by making one do every job.

The BRZ is "just" a two door Impreza. The Forester is "just" a crossover version of the Impreza. The new BRZ, if we are lucky, will be just the two door sports coupe version of the outback.

As always you spew info that isn't even close. For about the hundredth time I say support you statements with some evidence. No doubt for the hundredth time you will yet again just repeate the same comment with nothing to back it up. We have placed piles of materials in front of you yet you totally disregard it and continue your inane babbling.

Most of the cars will be built on the new global platform not all. I happen to own one of that new platform and it is a beauty.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Toyota had no input whatsoever into the design of the BRZ/FRS/GT86 except the spring rates. Which Toyota got wrong, as it happens. Since the FRS spring rates were changed for the following model year that is indisputable.

As for Subaru getting the suspension wrong in the first place they admitted the same by substantially revising and improving the suspension for 2017.

Anybody who has reviewed the 2017 confirms this substantial improvement. The changes I was able to make to my BRZ, most recently fitting 2017 rear springs, also confirms that the original set up was incorrect. I figured out what was wrong in 2013.

More rambling bullshit.
The progressively changing rates is not because they did it wrong but because they want to appeal to a larger market. All cars evolve that does not mean they were "wrong" to start with.
Have you not read any of the development story. Toyota did not just hand the car to Subaru and say "meh you design it". They were involved in every aspect.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Gforce

For 2018 Subaru has announced that all of their cars will be built on one platform as is the trend these days due to the enormous cost of compliance with structural integrity regulations around the world. Every manufacturer is trying to cut design, development and construction costs of the platforms by making one do every job.

In fact Subaru had already a common platform for most of its cars. The announcement of a single platform was more a marketing hype. In a sense, that they are modernized and they are following the rest of the world.

Too bad they didn't say ... "What others are doing lately, we were doing it years ago".

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

In fact Subaru had already a common platform for most of its cars. The announcement of a single platform was more a marketing hype. In a sense, that they are modernized and they are following the rest of the world.

Too bad they didn't say ... "What others are doing lately, we were doing it years ago".

Yep. Most manufactures have two or three basic platforms they build their whole line ups on. Many platforms are even shared across a few manufactures as it helps to split up development costs and keeps parts costs in check. For example the number of cars built on the Lancer platform is pretty surprising.

[WRBrzRX]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Except that Toyota didn't design the BRZ. And Toyota bought into Subaru well before the BRZ was announced, so not a totally unrelated company. As for the BMW connection with Toyota well, we should wait and see what that unlikely joint venture produces before we get too carried away. Toyota needs no help from BMW in the powerplant department.

The current Impreza and BRZ were developed at the same time and from a substantially modified Legacy platform. The rear suspension and subframe are essentially identical between the two and of different origin to that of the Legacy which continues with its own subframe and suspension until next year when Subaru will be building all of its cars on a new multi car platform. That's when we'll find out what the new BRZ will look like, if there is one.

WHAT. No. Watch the development videos. They state all of this very clearly. The rear suspension and subframe are not identical as you've said in the past, and they are not essentially identical which is your half step now?

The BRZ is on an entirely new platform, the Impreza never was until 2017, the Global Platform, which no one expects the BRZ to migrate to. You have this entirely backwards.

Also, the twins were jointly developed, this wasn't happening without full support from both companies. Toyota initiated, bankrolled and pushed the project hard in '08 immediately after buying their share in Fuji. They brought the Legacy mule to Subaru! You say they had nothing to do with it but spring rates which ignores the entire development process. The engines were jointly developed to maximize Subaru's boxer engine mated to Toyota's D4S dual port/direct injection. Without that we're driving FB20s at 150 HP. Toyota handled every element of design interior and out and contributed the gearboxes both manual and auto. Development videos at test days had Subaru and Toyota engineers in equal force.

Toyota didn't even contribute spring rates, that's crazy talk. At the last second Subaru changed their mind and changed theirs up! This is all well documented, both in type and video.

[WRBrzRX]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Well, so sorry to inform you, but you're wrong yet again. The current Impreza and the BRZ are both built on a heavily modified version of that Legacy platform.

WATCH. THE. VIDEOS.

we all did, years ago

rewriting history isn't going to work here

[Breadstickz]

Glad I came across this, gotta go grab some of those Toyota mud flaps for my brz

[willimusk]

Because of this thread I installed a set last week. They look pretty good, IMO.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by WRBrzRX

WATCH. THE. VIDEOS.

we all did, years ago

rewriting history isn't going to work here

I did watch the videos. Impreza and Legacy are referred to several times. Subaru simply could not afford to develop a specific platform for the BRZ. That's a fact.

Toyota supplied the port injection and the transmission. That's it. Platform and the suspension attached to it is all Subaru.

This article makes it clear that both the 2012 Impreza and the BRZ were developed at the same time using the Australian Liberty (Legacy in other markets) mule and the second mule in the development process was an Impreza:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25795D0021A2BF

http://www.autos.ca/subaru/preview-2013-subaru-brz/

"Impreza prototype ", "Impreza derived", "Impreza inspired" and "Impreza version" confirm that the new version of the Impreza and BRZ were designed at the same time and built on the same platform. If you had one of each, as I do, you would see this very clearly.

[WRBrzRX]

again I race both platforms and have a lot of parts for both 20 feet below me

you know what can be swapped? rear sway bar. Again as a function of standard vehicle width.

heres some pictures since annotated videos from the engineers dont work, the differences are pretty god damn obvious

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by WRBrzRX

again I race both platforms and have a lot of parts for both 20 feet below me

you know what can be swapped? rear sway bar. Again as a function of standard vehicle width.

heres some pictures since annotated videos from the engineers dont work, the differences are pretty god damn obvious

The relevant question is how much does it cost the factory to make the tiny differences in production to differentiate the two cars. The subframe and suspension at the rear are nearly identical. The front lower control arms are identical.

The platform upon which the body is constructed will be nearly identical, which is why the BRZ gets such a good crash rating. It's basically a four door sedan with smaller door openings, smaller between the A and C pillars.

Check the vehicle weights: the BRZ is nearly as heavy as the base Impreza hatchback.

[WRBrzRX]

look at the pictures

watch the video, read the annotation, listen to the engineers, look at the general shape of all Subaru subframes and stop wasting all of our time

they're not identical, they're not nearly identical and they cannot be used with each other.. if they were I'd have a LOAD of free parts to swap back and forth to experiment with. If you've had both apart you would ABSOLUTELY understand this intimately

what a waste of time, go try to swap parts on the subframes and post a pic how well it went since audio, video, narrative and experiential-based evidence from those who race and wrench on both platforms is of no interest to your exquisite guesswork