Strut...and anti-sway bar questions

[churchx]

Adam L: remember also that tire model choice is not the only thing one can botch. Don't go for too wide ones either like some do.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

On the Bilstein B6 strut/shocks , are they rebuildable ? I didn't see any mention of it on their website.

Yes, they can also be revalved for a different damping profile, and there are other shops capable of doing it, few advertise it though (and Bilstein is the most affordable I've come across, and them being down in SoCal helps for you too). I've heard mostly good things about their service & support.

http://www.bilsteinus.com/products/s...rvice/service/

Fronts are struts and more expensive than the rears, a revalve is another ~$30 on top for each damper, plus potential additional costs, but it slides in at just a bit over half the cost of buying a new set.

Of course someone will scoff and say 'for ~$500+ just buy another set of cheap coilovers' and the cycle continues.



I've heard Bilsteins regularly surpass 100k miles of hard usage for street/casual enthusiast usage, I'd wager most never get to the point where they need a rebuild.

[Adam_L]

I have 17x 7.5 wheels, and I'll either stay with 215/45 , or possibly... 225/45 , but 225 max depending upon tire cost.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by LenA

Andrew,

Would you also recommend B6 dampers on stock springs if one wanted stock ride height, or is improvement over stock dampers minimal with the stock springs?

Thanks

Len

Yes. Stock dampers aren't bad esp with stock springs, but I'd be looking for any excuse to switch to the B6 dampers.

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Hi Andrew,

Thank you for your responses. This is exactly the info I was looking for!!!

On the Bilstein B6 strut/shocks , are they rebuildable ? I didn't see any mention of it on their website.

Also, that is pretty much the tire choice I'd go with (Michelin Pilot super sport) when I go to do everything. I'll enjoy the stock set up for now, but also save everything (springs+ struts) , in case I ever want to transform the car back to stock.
Thanks again

Yes rebuildable.

No problem, glad to help.

- Andrew

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

If I were building a fun, reliable, reasonably fast, simple and budget friendly BRZ/FRS suspension tomorrow (and I do think about this all the time), I would do:

1. RCE Yellow springs
2. Bilstein B6 dampers

- Andrew

Thank you for chiming in, Andrew; I learn more every time you post.

Question RE: the B6 dampers and Yellow springs. The B6 is OEM height while the B8 is shorter to work with lowering springs. Do you lose stroke or is there any other drawback when using the B6 with lowering springs? Would something like the RaceSeng 1" rear shock top be beneficial in this scenario?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Thank you for chiming in, Andrew; I learn more every time you post.

Question RE: the B6 dampers and Yellow springs. The B6 is OEM height while the B8 is shorter to work with lowering springs. Do you lose stroke or is there any other drawback when using the B6 with lowering springs? Would something like the RaceSeng 1" rear shock top be beneficial in this scenario?

There is no advantage to the B8 dampers over the B6 dampers when using RCE Yellows. You lose droop travel and the valving is identical. The B8 dampers might have a shorter internal bumpstop for the inverted fronts, but I haven't verified if that is true.

The only reason to run B8s is if you are running springs that are so much shorter that they aren't captive at full droop (and I'm not aware of any spring that does that).

For the rear top mounts, I wouldn't use any lowering mount with fixed perch shocks.

- Andrew

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Responding here for @Adam_L

If I were building a fun, reliable, reasonably fast, simple and budget friendly BRZ/FRS suspension tomorrow (and I do think about this all the time), I would do:

1. RCE Yellow springs
2. Bilstein B6 dampers
3. camber bolts and rear LCAs with good alignment (-2 deg camber front, -1.8 rear, 0 toe front, tiny bit of rear toe in)

After that, I would consider RCE front and rear RCE swaybars OR just a take off OEM 16mm rear bar. Or keep bars stock. Also maybe a few key bushings (especially if you got some mileage on your car).

This handles and rides very well, will last a long itme, and be FUN.

The Bilstein B6 dampers are actually a great match to our RCE Yellow springs (and for that matter a handful of other springs out there as well). We've tested them together and examined shock dyno...it's a good quality shock and better than what's in many coilovers. I don't recommend any spring that lowers more than an inch. Our RCE Yellows are a mild/medium drop with carefully chosen spring rates and include replacement bumpstops so you get back some of the travel you get from the mild drop.

A lot of people assume coilover = better but that is not always the case.

- Andrew

Hi again Andrew,

I was thinking of doing #1 and #3 above , using my '16 stock struts/shocks (looks like this strut was updated for '15-16). It would save a load of $ , by not having to get the Bilstein struts (pretty sure they would run me about $700 - 750 , which is a chunk of dough there).

Would this still be a good/ solid way to go ? Surely better if I also had the B6 struts. If I just buy springs ($300) + LCA + camber bolts = about $525 in parts + installation.

Please let me know. I want to do it right, however don't want to over-spend at the same time if I can use my OE struts and that will be good (B6 would be Great). 4-wheel alignment/adjust looks to be about $100.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

There is no advantage to the B8 dampers over the B6 dampers when using RCE Yellows. You lose droop travel and the valving is identical. The B8 dampers might have a shorter internal bumpstop for the inverted fronts, but I haven't verified if that is true.

The only reason to run B8s is if you are running springs that are so much shorter that they aren't captive at full droop (and I'm not aware of any spring that does that).

Bilstein offers a kit at this side of the pond consisting of B8 and Eibach springs that lowers the car 40 mm (1.6 inch).
https://www2.bilstein.com/de/produkt...n-b12-pro-kit/

That's double the drop of the RCE Yellows? So perhaps that is a measure of when to switch to B8?

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Hi again Andrew,

I was thinking of doing #1 and #3 above , using my '16 stock struts/shocks (looks like this strut was updated for '15-16). It would save a load of $ , by not having to get the Bilstein struts (pretty sure they would run me about $700 - 750 , which is a chunk of dough there).

Would this still be a good/ solid way to go ? Surely better if I also had the B6 struts.

This is me, minus the LCAs. You will get negative camber in the rear just from lowering. If that is fairly even on both sides and close to the number you want, then an LCA is an unnecessary expense. For me on RCE yellows, my rear camber is -2.0 on both sides, so I don't need an LCA. If one side was -1.2 and the other was -2.5, I would want LCAs to be able to even them out. Camber bolts in the front are very useful. Put the OEM bottom bolt in the top hole and the camber bolt in the bottom hole.

[Adam_L]

Thanks for the info. So in other words, it isn't until i do the installation that I may, or may not need the LCA part of the project ( or is it after the 4-wheel alignment that I'd know?

[gramicci101]

After the alignment. Firestone has a lifetime alignment program, which helps.

Installation of springs on this car is stupid easy. If you have common tools and the ability to jack up your car, the only special tools you need are a pass-through socket set and Allen wrench set.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Tor

Bilstein offers a kit at this side of the pond consisting of B8 and Eibach springs that lowers the car 40 mm (1.6 inch).
https://www2.bilstein.com/de/produkt...n-b12-pro-kit/

That's double the drop of the RCE Yellows? So perhaps that is a measure of when to switch to B8?

Well, I just wouldn't get any lowering spring that lowers 40mm...

- andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Hi again Andrew,

I was thinking of doing #1 and #3 above , using my '16 stock struts/shocks (looks like this strut was updated for '15-16). It would save a load of $ , by not having to get the Bilstein struts (pretty sure they would run me about $700 - 750 , which is a chunk of dough there).

Would this still be a good/ solid way to go ? Surely better if I also had the B6 struts. If I just buy springs ($300) + LCA + camber bolts = about $525 in parts + installation.

Please let me know. I want to do it right, however don't want to over-spend at the same time if I can use my OE struts and that will be good (B6 would be Great). 4-wheel alignment/adjust looks to be about $100.

That's not a bad idea at all and many go that route. The later struts are definitely improved and work well with our springs. You can always add the struts later.

- Andrew