left-foot braking with AT

[fumanchu1]

love how your comment is the furthest thing away from your name rofl

[jarnojvv]

Originally Posted by mdm

Does anyone here drive an AT twin this way?


Are you aware of any reasons it couldn't/shouldn't be done in this car?


I mean real reasons, like:
"driving position becomes unbearably awkward"
"Brake Assist gets confused and kicks in every time you brake"
"the transmission will die after .

I do this using my auto FJC. Especially handy doing a hill start or taking a gap turning across an intersection. Left foot holds car still, right foot ready to floor when there's a gap.

Had a auto 86 as a loaner, works well but pedal a little far from the left to do it comfortably.

And no, never had an issue doing it.

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

That wasn't the OP just someone else who had commented on the fact that they do it and their reason for doing so is quite logical

My mistake

[RichardsFRS]

You know when you see the news "another old person has ran thru a diner" That's why, they confuse themselves with brake or throttle and blam they are wearing big macs

[mdm]

@Justaroll (sorry the forum engine din't quote your post properly for a reason)

My mother had a center brake light in her rear window as well.
Didn't stop her from still doing it.

Of course it does not automatically stop you from doing so. I was just saying that because of the center brake light reflecting in the glass I can check whether I am doing it or not.

Under heavy braking the left foot must push against the floor to brace your body

I had concerns about that. But it did not turn to be an issue at all. I was able to brake heavily with my left foot several times, to the point of locking wheels on dry surface (no ABS in my old Corolla). I don't have issues with control either. Just this morning I was entering an two-lane interstate behind a large truck followed by a small sedan. The truck decided to stop in the merge lane for a reason, and there were cars approaching fast in both main lanes. I expected the sedan to move to the right main lane, so I went immediately to the left lane to pass both the sedan and the stopping truck. As I was flooring it (it's uphill and I am in an old Corolla, and there were cars approaching from behind) the sedan suddenly moved to the left lane for some reason. I had no problem braking, switching to the right lane and getting immediately on gas (because my right foot was there all the time) to pass the sedan on the right.

It is less confusing to switch from an automatic to a manual vehicle.

To my surprise, I did not find it confusing, at least when switching rarely (e.g., months/weeks).

The left foot, resting on the the brake pedal, may inadvertently push down the brake pedal and light up the brake lights whilst accelerating.

As I said, I don't think I do this. In some cases there may be a small delay when transitioning from brake to gas, so the brake light goes off maybe 0.5 seconds after I start accelerating, instead of 0.5-1 seconds before, as would be normal when using the right foot for both pedals. I don't see it as a serious issue.

There is less chance of a mixup between accelerator and brake. After a lifetime of using two feet, older drivers may get confused, pressing the wrong pedal. The ones that had used the right foot only all their lives are less likely to have trouble later on

I'd love to see an actual scientific study showing that, as for me it does not really compute.


I suspect this might be a "common knowledge" that just persists without being properly studied. Sort of like setting your side mirrors: even driver's manuals say that you should see the back of your car. But it is wrong, you don't really need to see your car, you know where it is anyway. You should set the side mirrors as far out as possible as long as the field of view barely overlaps with the inside mirror's field of view. This way you have maximum coverage and minimum blind spots. Of course, like with left-foot braking, you have to retrain your brain a bit, and use the inside mirror also to check the side lanes. But there is net advantage, and there was a SAE paper about that in 1995, yet only recently this knowledge slowly started to trickle into general knowledge.

[mdm]

Originally Posted by jarnojvv

Especially handy doing a hill start or taking a gap turning across an intersection. Left foot holds car still, right foot ready to floor when there's a gap.

^^^^ This.

[strat61caster]

OP is autox champ of all time

[go_a_way1]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

Trust me, it's sexy in person but u MUST have a lip.

*another thing is that you can run front plate on it... doesnt change the look much unlike Frs.

No front plates in AB

[jarnojvv]

Originally Posted by mdm

^^^^ This.

You are forgetting rolling burn outs.

[justatroll]

The simplest answer: POSITIVE feedback.
"Normal drivers" resist the tendency of your body moving forward by pressing the left foot against the dead pedal.


What happens when your left foot is on the brake pedal and you begin to apply the brake?
Body's tendency to move forward - body attempts to resist movement by pushing back with the feet.
What are you now pushing against? - The brake!
Brakes get applied harder, body resists motion harder pressing on the foot! MORE BRAKES!


It is called positive feedback, and any control system engineer knows THIS IS BAD!


But go ahead and do it however you like.
Just, please, do one experiment for me:


As you are "two footed driving" down the road, please tell me what happens when you reach down and pull up on the seat adjustment lever in the front of the driver's seat.
Then report back.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mdm

OK, so let's derail it for a little bit. I hoped to get answers though, not to defend my choices ;-). [Also, seeing responses which appeared while I was typing this, it looks I will get few if any answers and a lot of judging...]

I do not think AT is "meant" to do it, it's just the way I prefer to do it.

I know that usually the pedals are not really designed for left-foot braking, and it is not the most comfortable position for the left foot. But I got used to it.

Yes, I braked with right foot in MT, I still brake with right foot when driving MT (e.g., when renting cars in Europe), switching is actually much easier that I suspected. I also braked with right foot for many years in AT.

At some point I wanted to try left-foot braking and I found that it suits me better for several reasons:

1. faster response time in emergency (not wasting time on moving the foot sideways)
2. faster start when green light turns on (for the same reason - not that I want to street race people, but sometimes I am in the wrong lane and need to get in front of other cars)
3. easier to start on steep uphill without rolling back in cars with no Hill Assist (no need to use the ebrake)
4. being lazy in stop-and-go traffic - don't need to move the foot from gas to brake and back all the time
5. some people say that left foot braking can get you confused in emergency and you will bemore likely to press gas instead of brake. I don't buy it, I think you are more likely to do it when you use the same foot for both gas and brake. And I did not have problems with emergency braking a few times already.
6. [tongue-in-cheek] I do some recreational karting so with left-foot braking I can feel almost like in a go-kart ;-)


What exactly scared you?


Why do you think so? I am asking seriously.


Thanks. See above for the panic stop issue.

So so much wrong here. Right from the opening statement. Not even going to bother to debate since mind was made up before initial question was ever asked. Don't ask a question if you already have your mind set.

[mdm]

Originally Posted by justatroll

The simplest answer: POSITIVE feedback.
"Normal drivers" resist the tendency of your body moving forward by pressing the left foot against the dead pedal.

What happens when your left foot is on the brake pedal and you begin to apply the brake?
Body's tendency to move forward - body attempts to resist movement by pushing back with the feet.
What are you now pushing against? - The brake!
Brakes get applied harder, body resists motion harder pressing on the foot! MORE BRAKES!


It is called positive feedback, and any control system engineer knows THIS IS BAD!

Yes, in general positive feedback is not good. Nevertheless, I do not observe effects that you are describing even under heavy braking. I guess I learned to resist the inertia with my hands on the wheel and with my heels? Interesting, I do it instictively and I cannot tell right now how. But I am able to modulate braking as necessary (though this part required a lot of practice).

Originally Posted by justatroll

As you are "two footed driving" down the road, please tell me what happens when you reach down and pull up on the seat adjustment lever in the front of the driver's seat.

Why would I adjust the seat while driving, using either foot for braking? Does not make sense to me as a test. Isn't itlike asking "can you safely replace windshield wipers while driving"?

[mdm]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not even going to bother to debate since mind was made up before initial question was ever asked. Don't ask a question if you already have your mind set.

In response to this, and also to jokes in the teeth thread ("For those of you that seem to think this is a bad idea, these are just opinions and I'm going to continue anyways even though I asked for your advice")


Please note that I was asking if there is anything specific to the FR-S ("Are you aware of any reasons it couldn't/shouldn't be done in this car?") that would preclude or interfere with left-foot braking.


I was not asking whether it is good to brake with your left foot in general. Yes I have my mind pretty much set about that, with probably 30 or 50k miles of experience and self-observation doing it on a daily basis (though I am always open to consider an good argument against my opinion).


It's just that the majority of posters, instead of responding to my actual question (like "I don't know, I would never do that anyway", or just not responding at all) started to pile up on me telling me that left-foot braking is bad in general. Not what I asked about!

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by mdm

In response to this, and also to jokes in the teeth thread ("For those of you that seem to think this is a bad idea, these are just opinions and I'm going to continue anyways even though I asked for your advice")


Please note that I was asking if there is anything specific to the FR-S ("Are you aware of any reasons it couldn't/shouldn't be done in this car?") that would preclude or interfere with left-foot braking.


I was not asking whether it is good to brake with your left foot in general. Yes I have my mind pretty much set about that, with probably 30 or 50k miles of experience and self-observation doing it on a daily basis (though I am always open to consider an good argument against my opinion).


It's just that the majority of posters, instead of responding to my actual question (like "I don't know, I would never do that anyway", or just not responding at all) started to pile up on me telling me that left-foot braking is bad in general. Not what I asked about!

Other than the brake pedal being positioned specifically to be used with the right foot just like EVERY OTHER VEHICLE ON THE ROAD, no there is nothing inherent to the twins that would make left foot braking any harder than any other car

And really, the way you worded your questions you definitely invited everyone's negative feedback on left foot braking