wide vs. narrow wheels/tires

[NoHaveMSG]

I understand the point you are trying to make, this is just a really poor example. I bought my wheel/tire combo for track use not knowing any better. It doesn't seem to hinder me being on 245's though.

FYI the two example cars you choose have a difference in tire diameter of 3.1%, or 21mm.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

To be fair, we are not exactly making Porsche, Corvette, Ferrari, or Mclaren power either.

True. But would you go with 245's in front just to be square? He made a blanket statement about square setup's which was just wrong. And many people here have turbo's. Remember that he's the one who said wider is ALWAYS better. Do you really agree with that?

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Cole

No, the reason he's laughing is because typically, staggered set ups on twins make them more prone to understeer.

You're comparing apples to donuts. A 30k car, designed with a square set up from the factory, is far different than 75k+ cars that were designed with staggered set ups.

So what you're saying is yes, if you have 265's in back, you should always have them in front as well? Really? Even 245's in front will decrease maneuverability. The car was DESIGNED to run on 215's. That is the important factor. It was not designed to run on wider tires even if you have a square setup. So please don't use the "designed" argument as it is just as "wrong" as trying to justify a staggered setup. And by the way, TRD sells alloy wheels as an accessory to the 86 for a staggered setup. Are you saying that TRD didn't test it?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by rvoll

True. But would you go with 245's in front just to be square? He made a blanket statement about square setup's which was just wrong. And many people here have turbo's. Remember that he's the one who said wider is ALWAYS better. Do you really agree with that?

I would go 245's all the way around because I would want to be able to rotate front to rear. Most of the turbo and super'd cars I come across are on square, they seem to do just fine. Obviously if you wanted to test every tire/wheel/suspension/power combo I am sure there are instances where things are better, but at this point, and at most of our skill levels, it does not matter a whole lot unless you are getting way outside the box.

I also reread his post, he did not say wider is always better.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by rvoll

So what you're saying is yes, if you have 265's in back, you should always have them in front as well? Really? Even 245's in front will decrease maneuverability. The car was DESIGNED to run on 215's. That is the important factor. It was not designed to run on wider tires even if you have a square setup. So please don't use the "designed" argument as it is just as "wrong" as trying to justify a staggered setup. And by the way, TRD sells alloy wheels as an accessory to the 86 for a staggered setup. Are you saying that TRD didn't test it?

TRD America has nothing to do with the design of the vehicle.

Just read up on staggered set ups on twins. I'm not going to spoonfeed you the info.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Why not...

Because the car was DESIGNED to run on 215's....

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by fatoni

I bought it in 2018. The tire you're talking about was designed specifically for 20" rims and it was record breaking there too. if that tire won every race, other tires aren't competitive. That's the opposite of what the word competitive means.

You are just making things up to justify your reasoning. It was a record breaking on the Gazoo 86/BRZ races on 16" wheels. I told you the reason. Period. Then they developed it for the GTR, but when going on a different size you can play with the compound to keep it competitive. Do you think a tire is ALWAYS the same independently of the size?

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It is about keeping a balance.

LIsten. People just want to justify their purchase of wide tires/wheels and they don't feel that just looking good is reason enough or they feel guilty about that if they know better. Choosing the right tire/wheel combo for performance, as you know, is a very complicated subject which depends on many factors including your specific use, the type of pavement, engine/suspension mods, how aggressive you drive, whether you track your car or not, the type of track your driving on, the importance of ride quality, etc. But if someone is using the car as a daily driver, the BRZ is extremely well designed and balanced and changing that significantly only makes it less balanced. It was designed to be a road car. If you are racing and doing racing mods, it is a whole different world that requires some real world testing of alternatives.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I would go 245's all the way around because I would want to be able to rotate front to rear. Most of the turbo and super'd cars I come across are on square, they seem to do just fine. Obviously if you wanted to test every tire/wheel/suspension/power combo I am sure there are instances where things are better, but at this point, and at most of our skill levels, it does not matter a whole lot unless you are getting way outside the box.

I also reread his post, he did not say wider is always better.

For those of us who have tested tire/wheel combos at the track, I can tell you that you will decrease handling capabilities with significantly wider tires at the front. If you don't race or push your car, however, it will make little difference other than lowering your mpg. And if you've read other threads, his overall point has been, and he has said, that wider is ALWAYS better.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by rvoll

LIsten. People just want to justify their purchase of wide tires/wheels and they don't feel that just looking good is reason enough or they feel guilty about that if they know better. Choosing the right tire/wheel combo for performance, as you know, is a very complicated subject which depends on many factors including your specific use, the type of pavement, engine/suspension mods, how aggressive you drive, whether you track your car or not, the type of track your driving on, the importance of ride quality, etc. But if someone is using the car as a daily driver, the BRZ is extremely well designed and balanced and changing that significantly only makes it less balanced. It was designed to be a road car. If you are racing and doing racing mods, it is a whole different world that requires some real world testing of alternatives.

I just imagined that you yelled this at your computer screen without taking a breath and almost passed out. It made me laugh

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by rvoll

For those of us who have tested tire/wheel combos at the track, I can tell you that you will decrease handling capabilities with significantly wider tires at the front. If you don't race or push your car, however, it will make little difference other than lowering your mpg. And if you've read other threads, his overall point has been, and he has said, that wider is ALWAYS better.

Excuse me. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

You are just making things up to justify your reasoning. It was a record breaking on the Gazoo 86/BRZ races on 16" wheels. I told you the reason. Period. Then they developed it for the GTR, but when going on a different size you can play with the compound to keep it competitive. Do you think a tire is ALWAYS the same independently of the size?

Making it up or simply looking at the advan pro driver talking about how it was designed for the gtr in a video that Yokohama showed at the autosalon when they debuted the tire?

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Cole

TRD America has nothing to do with the design of the vehicle.

Just read up on staggered set ups on twins. I'm not going to spoonfeed you the info.

I've read many of the posts on staggered setups. They work well in conjunction with suspension changed to make the car more neutral. I've also done this to several cars. But that is not the issue. So how wide would you go on the front? If you have 255's in back, would you really also put them in front?

Regarding TRD, they do recommend that the staggered setup for the 86 works. Of course, the use 7" rims on the front and 7.5" rims in back so they are talking about keeping the 215's on the front. I don't know what they tested in back.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by rvoll

For those of us who have tested tire/wheel combos at the track, I can tell you that you will decrease handling capabilities with significantly wider tires at the front. If you don't race or push your car, however, it will make little difference other than lowering your mpg. And if you've read other threads, his overall point has been, and he has said, that wider is ALWAYS better.

So do you think 245's are significantly wider?

I don't think they are, 255's getting there, 265's for stock power levels are a bit much. This is such an overblown argument. Like I said earlier, at most of our skill levels on this forum a 245 vs a 215 on the track is not going to make THAT much of a difference. Chill out and have a beer man.