FR-S/BRZ vs. Genesis Coupe

[blur]

Originally Posted by Driftster

Which like i said are attainable by others...but they are null n void from his qualification and cannot enjoy them....


No where did it say these are all "must haves off the lot"

Yet for some reason those cars aren't getting recognition for putting the driver experience as a priority. They would rather play the one size fits all game, than develop a more traditional sports car that puts driving feel and control over luxuries.

If you want to dump 5k into your car just to have it handle like it should have coming off the lot, go ahead.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by Driftster

Please explain to me how a Boxer 4 with sky high compression.. direct injection and 2+2 seating is more of a "traditional sports car"

Than a Turbo inline 4 with standard port injection, 2+2 seating

Most of my comments about the MX5 apply to the FT86 (though I'm not expecting the FT86 to be quite as good).

I understand why some are more interested in outright acceleration. Again, to each his own.

Originally Posted by Driftster

Mustang and camaro i can see..As they handle entirely too well and are entirely too low priced to be considered sports cars..

Both offer great grip and competent handling. But I'm bewildered that someone would say they handle too well to be considered sports cars.

Originally Posted by Driftster

And these priorities are obviously...Direct injection......And useless back seats...

The FT86's back seats aren't useless for my needs. Otherwise, my comments about the MX5 layout my priorities.

I suggest we agree to disagree and move on. You're happy with cars like the GC and I'm happy a car like the FT86 is finally coming out.

Beyond that, the discussion has become repetitive and circular and you've dropped a couple (minor) insults and condescending remarks. I'm not interested in getting dragged into what will inevitably spiral into a petty flamewar (it's already moved beyond any sort of useful discussion). So I'm out. Good look to you.

[blur]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Beyond that, the discussion has become repetitive and circular and you've dropped a couple (minor) insults and condescending remarks. I'm not interested in getting dragged into what will inevitably spiral into a petty flamewar (it's already moved beyond any sort of useful discussion). So I'm out. Good look to you.

+1

[3scapist]

Originally Posted by Driftster

P.S. "Traditional sports cars"... Don't have golf bag rear seats, do not come direct injected, do not have sky high compression ratios just to eek out few more MPG, don't hit the pavement in 17" rubber borrowed from a hybrid vehicle...

You just reminded me of the reasons I might just pass this car on >.>

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Both offer great grip and competent handling. But I'm bewildered that someone would say they handle too well to be considered sports cars.

His comment makes plenty of sense. Look at the pricing on the 5.0 and the SS. Look at the track times the cars have been putting up. Look at the interior and notice it isn't the cheap plastic interior of yesteryear. Look at the ungodly horsepower offered by both. They are priced entirely too low for what you're getting.

Truthfully Ford would be my favorite manufacturer but I'm a car enthusiast to the bone and can more than give credit where credit is due which is why I intend to get a BRZ and do my best to make it the best possible car I can. But let's be serious, the 5.0 for example is a fraction of a second slower around a track than an M3... a car almost twice it's price; the boss and soon to be released 650hp 200+mph GT500 wreck everything in their price bracket currently. The ZL1 put up ungodly nurburgring times for what it'll cost. I still call them muscle cars, because the name muscle car stood for something you're working class, blue collar, 9-5 working, Joe Averagepants could afford and stand up to European + Japanese sports cars. Only these days the name of the game is Power, HANDLING, FUEL MILEAGE, and EMISSIONS; rather than just Power.

We live in a great time, to quote Clarkson, cars these days "sip fuel, make lots of power, and crap daisies." Good times, good times.

But I digress, I actually am still trying to decide between the BRZ and the GC myself. The way I see it the 2013 GC is going to offer reasonably good handling, great power for the price (347bHP, 291lb-ft), the track pack fully loaded adds maybe another 2k to the price, and Hyundai's rediculous 10yr 100,000mi warranty (epic). The BRZ/FR-S/GT86 offer rediculous handling, the build quality Toyota and Subaru are known for, and the driving feel that's akin to a Lotus or Porsche (without the push your eyeballs to the back of your skull acceleration). Dunno, it's a toss up right now , I'll need to test drive both.

[3scapist]

I can't wait until someone actually runs a GC. I would go against my friends 2.0t but that thing is far from stock and pushing 370+whp

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

His comment makes plenty of sense. Look at the pricing on the 5.0 and the SS. Look at the track times the cars have been putting up. Look at the interior and notice it isn't the cheap plastic interior of yesteryear. Look at the ungodly horsepower offered by both. They are priced entirely too low for what you're getting.

Truthfully Ford would be my favorite manufacturer but I'm a car enthusiast to the bone and can more than give credit where credit is due which is why I intend to get a BRZ and do my best to make it the best possible car I can. But let's be serious, the 5.0 for example is a fraction of a second slower around a track than an M3... a car almost twice it's price; the boss and soon to be released 650hp 200+mph GT500 wreck everything in their price bracket currently. The ZL1 put up ungodly nurburgring times for what it'll cost. I still call them muscle cars, because the name muscle car stood for something you're working class, blue collar, 9-5 working, Joe Averagepants could afford and stand up to European + Japanese sports cars. Only these days the name of the game is Power, HANDLING, FUEL MILEAGE, and EMISSIONS; rather than just Power.

We live in a great time, to quote Clarkson, cars these days "sip fuel, make lots of power, and crap daisies." Good times, good times.

But I digress, I actually am still trying to decide between the BRZ and the GC myself. The way I see it the 2013 GC is going to offer reasonably good handling, great power for the price (347bHP, 291lb-ft), the track pack fully loaded adds maybe another 2k to the price, and Hyundai's rediculous 10yr 100,000mi warranty (epic). The BRZ/FR-S/GT86 offer rediculous handling, the build quality Toyota and Subaru are known for, and the driving feel that's akin to a Lotus or Porsche (without the push your eyeballs to the back of your skull acceleration). Dunno, it's a toss up right now , I'll need to test drive both.

We are in the same boat!!! Those 2 cars are the only cars I want under 40k. And here is a fun fact? 3 years ago Subaru and Hyundai was my most disliked brands when it came to sport coupes and now 3 years later they have risen to the top of my list. Life is really funny.

[Zaku]

I dunno how I feel about the front of the new GC it's... so ugly but not...

[tripjammer]

I too was looking at the 2013 Gen coupe...but the driving experience is what I am going for so Its BRZ or FR-S for me.

The ultimate car would be the FR-S in a high spec trim equal to the High-Spec Toyota 86...The high spec trim does not have many toys but what it has it what I want in a daily driver...

Or a Scion version of the TRD 86...hehe

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

We are in the same boat!!! Those 2 cars are the only cars I want under 40k. And here is a fun fact? 3 years ago Subaru and Hyundai was my most disliked brands when it came to sport coupes and now 3 years later they have risen to the top of my list. Life is really funny.

I think 3 years ago almost everyone listed Hyundai on their bottom 3

I really hope Hyundai lets Millen have the car wayyy in advance and that it launches with a Millen kit not far off

Still haven't warmed up to the front at all but overall profile and rear look good.

Has official pricing been annoced yet or is that coming at Detroit?

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

We are in the same boat!!! Those 2 cars are the only cars I want under 40k. And here is a fun fact? 3 years ago Subaru and Hyundai was my most disliked brands when it came to sport coupes and now 3 years later they have risen to the top of my list. Life is really funny.

Well for cars I want under 40k it's a tossup between the FRS, Gen Coupe, 5.0 Stang, a used 335i, an e46 M3, and the new Focus ST.


Right now because of price the FRS and Gen Coupe are in the lead but I honestly don't know which one I want so I'm going to have to test drive all of those (except the 335 and M3, I know how those drive).

[Homemade WRX]

Ok, since it seems most people here don't truly understand the compromises that MUST be taken at the engineering level of any vehicle...the penny pinchers fight the engineers over hardware changes and the cost of components (but it keeps things affordable), the EPA/CARB (mention them as they are currently the most stingent) and CAFE put a choke hold on the engine. Something that I use to simply explain this...
You have power, fuel economy and clean emissions; pick two. Note that two are mandatory to an OEM

With that being said, we use technology to keep the power up. So things like GDI are used. Because of this we can use high compression ratio which helps with power and fuel economy, a GREAT thing. Low rolling resistance tires, that'll get changed anyway, just help with CAFE standards. Things like this keep this car from requiring credits to pass and probably actually earn a few credits for the manufacturer.

Also why the complaining of a boxer layout which actually has a much lower CG than an inline four?...since when must a 'sports car' have an inline 4, port injection and 15's?

Sports cars come in various configurations, shapes, sizes, power levels...judge each for what it is.

[random]

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

Ok, since it seems most people here don't truly understand the compromises that MUST be taken at the engineering level of any vehicle...the penny pinchers fight the engineers over hardware changes and the cost of components (but it keeps things affordable), the EPA/CARB (mention them as they are currently the most stingent) and CAFE put a choke hold on the engine. Something that I use to simply explain this...
You have power, fuel economy and clean emissions; pick two. Note that two are mandatory to an OEM

You forgot one other critical component in the real world: cost. If cost were no factor, every car would be made out of carbon fiber or some other space shuttle material.

[Mikael]

So have any of you driven a Gencoupe?

TB doesn't close all the way when you let off the gas and the result is teribad rev-hang.

It doesn't seem to be consistent either. Some have reported it going away after a flash, others after getting a BOV and some are still stuck with it after a flash, bov, lighter flywheel, ect..

I really liked the GC (aside from it being gigantic) but this is the one thing that killed it for me. I'd be pretty pissed off if I payed 23K + 1-2K in mods and was still stuck with a car that rev-hangs like that..


This.. and I can't shake the feeling that Hyundai is the Rota of cars...