FR-S/BRZ vs. Genesis Coupe

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

As far as the Miata is concerned, that thing is pretty expensive, but then I am not into convertibles so I guess I can't appreciate that aspect.

MSRP yes, OTD no. You can get them OTD for $22-23k. An FRS will be 26k OTD starting and BRZ would be $28k OTD(assuming you can get it down)

WRX which can be had for $27xxx OTD.

Genesis Coupe 2.OT Rspec/Track can be had $22-23OTD.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by fatoni

when you say things like weight is overemphasized, it makes me wonder what you think isnt overemphasized. and those rules you spoke of cant be broken. i mean i kinda understand what you are saying but i disagree

With enough money you can break those rules except the tires I guess.

The thing is this: I think weight is important from a philosophical standpoint. However most people who talk about low weight don't actually care about the advantages it provides; I see people saying "it's a sports car, it only needs to get 20mpg and I'll be happy". (similarly, people who whine that it's not lighter than a Miata, more powerful than a Porsche, etc.) These kinds of people clearly only care about performance, not practicality and cost of ownership. It's perfectly possible to have a heavy car feel "connected to the driver", and everyone knows how easy it is to make a heavy car fast. Want relative good mpg cheap? Use super long 6th gear ala Mustang.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

With enough money you can break those rules except the tires I guess.

The thing is this: I think weight is important from a philosophical standpoint. However most people who talk about low weight don't actually care about the advantages it provides; I see people saying "it's a sports car, it only needs to get 20mpg and I'll be happy". (similarly, people who whine that it's not lighter than a Miata, more powerful than a Porsche, etc.) These kinds of people clearly only care about performance, not practicality and cost of ownership. It's perfectly possible to have a heavy car feel "connected to the driver", and everyone knows how easy it is to make a heavy car fast. Want relative good mpg cheap? Use super long 6th gear ala Mustang.

once again an internet disagreement boils down to semantics. once i realized you were talking about the people who buy coilovers and then proceed to use mismatched worn out all season tires, i knew what you meant...even though i still kinda disagree on the importance of the boxer engine and maybe some other things but thats a different topic

[serialk11r]

As far as the boxer engine goes, you can argue whether it's important or not, but I think it's fairly accurate to say the boxer engine is one of the defining features of the car. If Nissan releases a Silvia replacement for example, or if Honda releases a competitor, then this car will have the "advantage" of the boxer engine.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

As far as the boxer engine goes, you can argue whether it's important or not, but I think it's fairly accurate to say the boxer engine is one of the defining features of the car. If Nissan releases a Silvia replacement for example, or if Honda releases a competitor, then this car will have the "advantage" of the boxer engine.

ill give you the fact that its the defining feature but i see it as more of a quirk (even if it does actually contribute to lowering cog). saying that it has a lower cog because of its motor design is like saying it has inferior handling because of its suspension design. conversely, i wouldnt say that v10s have an advantage because the lfa has a lower cog than the frs or even that inline 4s have an advantage because my miata has a lower cog than the frs.

i guess the point is i really wish there was some data as to how much this car benefits from the boxer

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

As far as the boxer engine goes, you can argue whether it's important or not, but I think it's fairly accurate to say the boxer engine is one of the defining features of the car. If Nissan releases a Silvia replacement for example, or if Honda releases a competitor, then this car will have the "advantage" of the boxer engine.

You know what would of served better? A Renesis 13b, smooth torque, nice top end, beautiful sound, lightweight and small to give a better weight distribution and CoG. It could of met 30mpg with the low weight of the chassis.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

You know what would of served better? A Renesis 13b, smooth torque, nice top end, beautiful sound, lightweight and small to give a better weight distribution and CoG. It could of met 30mpg with the low weight of the chassis.

i think that 30 mpg is a bit optimistic to say the least. if rotary didnt have any significant flaws i think that there would be more cars with them

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

You know what would of served better? A Renesis 13b, smooth torque, nice top end, beautiful sound, lightweight and small to give a better weight distribution and CoG. It could of met 30mpg with the low weight of the chassis.

But then you'd have a rotary... And the sound is... un-natural.

The boxer is an interesting issue. It can lower the CoG, but I think it also limits how far back the center of mass can be moved because of its width.

[val_lixembeau]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i guess the point is i really wish there was some data as to how much this car benefits from the boxer

Yeah, especially since it comes with some drawbacks as well. Since it's wider than an in-line engine, that's probably why they couldn't get it as far back as we'd like. Same goes for only having enough space for struts instead of wishbones. And it will be hard to ever get any more displacement since there is less room to increase stroke.

That and boxer fours sound terrible to me.

[fatoni]

with all the talk about the width of the boxer keeping it forward i think its pretty important to remember that the engine is also only 2 cylinders long as opposed to 4

[Dark]

How comes rotary and nissan talks are in Gen Coupe VS FR-S?

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by Driftster

These phrases "a more traditional sports car" carry about as much merit as kids who say "This car is much more refined"

I respectfully disagree.

Originally Posted by Driftster

I'm sorry that you can't get enjoyment out of an automobile but need an extremely limited amount of criteria in order to have a thrilling and fulfilling experience, it must suck to be stuck viewing things in such a narrow view.

Not enjoying something as much as someone else != Unable to get enjoyment out of something

Different priorities != Narrow view

To each his own.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

You are confusing a 2800# with 200hp versus a 2200# car with 200hp

That's why some people wrote the car off, power not weight. WEIGHT is only a factor when power is low as in this case. If the car was 2200# and 200hp then guess what, 90% of those guys who wrote the car off wouldn't of.

If anybody really thought this car was going to be 2200 lbs then they are gullible as hell. Everybody knew it was going to be between 2500-2800 lbs because of similar modern vehicles being close in size and having FWD. 2801 lbs is not heavy.

[blur]

Originally Posted by Driftster

And these priorities are obviously...Direct injection......And useless back seats...

Right, obviously great handling and low weight are merely coincidental results that weren't intended to satisfy the enthusiast's demand for a hard top miata.