FT-86 SpeedFactory Catted UEL Header

[shaunsweeney]

I'm talking SC not turbo. I know the drawbacks of going turbo, which is why I'm interested in SC. There is a very huge difference in EGTs between the two. Also, 200 cell metallic core cats aren't that expensive.

I have no idea why everyone thinks this. It's been a long time since I looked into cat prices but they are still the same. Around $100 for a magnaflow 200 cell metallic core. I'm starting to change my mind on how this header R&D is being approached if you aren't willing to test this before release.

Just an example:
http://store.42draftdesigns.com/Magn...Cat_p_351.html

Also Miata guys have been running PPI catted headers on SC'd cars to fix issues with not running cats causing CELs. So please don't tell me this isn't possible. Please read this thread to see what I'm talking about.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/viewto...t=2669&p=15989

I just don't want to see our best shot at a great header for a great price lost because of a lack of vision or willingness to do the necessary R&D. Not trying to hate on you guys, but there is a market for SC guys and catted headers.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

I'm talking SC not turbo. I know the drawbacks of going turbo, which is why I'm interested in SC. There is a very huge difference in EGTs between the two. Also, 200 cell metallic core cats aren't that expensive.

I have no idea why everyone thinks this. It's been a long time since I looked into cat prices but they are still the same. Around $100 for a magnaflow 200 cell metallic core. I'm starting to change my mind on how this header R&D is being approached if you aren't willing to test this before release.

Just an example:
http://store.42draftdesigns.com/Magn...Cat_p_351.html

Also Miata guys have been running PPI catted headers on SC'd cars to fix issues with not running cats causing CELs. So please don't tell me this isn't possible. Please read this thread to see what I'm talking about.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/viewto...t=2669&p=15989

I just don't want to see our best shot at a great header for a great price lost because of a lack of vision or willingness to do the necessary R&D. Not trying to hate on you guys, but there is a market for SC guys and catted headers.

I'd also be interested in a metallic core cat for longevity, I can't imagine the price difference being as significant as it used to be years ago. The Perrin front-pipe I have uses a metallic core cat and wasn't that expensive.

[Jac]

Originally Posted by Steve

I'd also be interested in a metallic core cat for longevity

+1

I'll eventually be going supercharger and would happily pay extra for a metallic core. Can this be offered as an option at some point in the future?

[shaunsweeney]

Here is a direct price comparison:

Ceramic:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mpe-54956

Metallic:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mpe-59956/overview/

Roughly $20 difference. I'm sorry but to cheap out on the main selling point of your header makes little to no sense.

[FT-86 SpeedFactory]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

I just don't want to see our best shot at a great header for a great price lost because of a lack of vision or willingness to do the necessary R&D. Not trying to hate on you guys, but there is a market for SC guys and catted headers.

There is no lack of vision or willingness here, that should be pretty clear by our previous products and customer service. There is a lack of time, investment, time, staffing, and did I mention time? Demand in the NA area is much larger than the SC area at this time.

I think sometimes people think we are larger then we are. We are literally two people; Jeremy and Yo. We work some pretty long hours as it is and we pull on other people locally to help us MFG and etc as needed. Those people often have other projects going on as well. It's also December and here in Iowa today it's 8 degrees. Not really very good testing weather which is how its been for a few weeks now plus snowfall. We're concentrating available time first to the NA application of this header and will make sure it's 120% before opening up orders.

We have plans to work on an SC warrantied option as already mentioned a few pages ago, i think... We'll be testing this as it sits, and if as I expect it will be fine. If not we'll try a different core. We're talking 3 months though before we see temps and time get to where we need for this testing to take place. I'd like to test it on track and push the temps in our silver car, but local tracks are obviously closed. We'll take donations though to get us and the cars to a track in the south. I know I could use some warm sun! lol

Again this cat is designed for 5 liters of exhaust flow which should be just fine for a SC application. The Metal one is rated for 6 liters. Ceramic is rated to withstand temps from 1,800 °F to 3,000 °F if you got exhaust temps higher than that, well you got motor issues headed your way rather quickly.

Originally Posted by Steve

I'd also be interested in a metallic core cat for longevity, I can't imagine the price difference being as significant as it used to be years ago. The Perrin front-pipe I have uses a metallic core cat and wasn't that expensive.

And they no longer make them, due to costs and other issues. It's not as easy or cheap as it may seem.

[FT-86 SpeedFactory]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

Here is a direct price comparison:

Ceramic:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mpe-54956

Metallic:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mpe-59956/overview/

Roughly $20 difference. I'm sorry but to cheap out on the main selling point of your header makes little to no sense.

Those would not fit in the area we have to work with on this vehicle.

[shaunsweeney]

Originally Posted by FT-86 SpeedFactory

Those would not fit in the area we have to work with on this vehicle.

C'mon you know I used those as basic price comparisons. I don't know the dimensions of the cat you chose nor does anyone else.

I either missed your post about future SC testing or it wasn't posted. It sounds like I will be holding off for that testing, as there is no point in this header if there isn't FI compatibility.

Also, ceramic cats are not as reliable/durable (vibration) as metallic cats nor do they flow as well per given size. You would be better off using the metallic cat just for peace of mind. Honestly, if you've never designed such an exhaust piece before you should talk to some folks that have. No one uses ceramic cats and there is a reason for it.

Here is a good link Post #7
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...t-vs-metal-cat

[husker741]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

C'mon you know I used those as basic price comparisons. I don't know the dimensions of the cat you chose nor does anyone else.

I either missed your post about future SC testing or it wasn't posted. It sounds like I will be holding off for that testing, as there is no point in this header if there isn't FI compatibility.

Also, ceramic cats are not as reliable/durable as metallic cats nor do they flow as well per given size. You would be better off using the metallic cat just for peace of mind. Honestly, if you've never designed such an exhaust piece before you should talk to some folks that have. No one uses ceramic cats and there is a reason for it.

Would you please make me a metallic core catted header for less than $899? Thanks. I expect it soon cuz it's so easy.

[shaunsweeney]

Originally Posted by husker741

Would you please make me a mettelic core catted header for less than $899? Thanks. I expect it soon cuz it's so easy.

Ummmm it is just that easy. Seriously, there is negligible price difference between ceramic/metallic cats. This isn't a new thing.

[husker741]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

Ummmm it is just that easy. Seriously, there is negligible price difference between ceramic/metallic cats. This isn't a new thing.

Awesome! I'll be waiting for you to send it to me!

Also, if there is such a "negligible" difference, why are you saying anything anyways?

[shaunsweeney]

If I could weld up a header with a ceramic cat it doesn't require some mythical ability to do the same with a metallic. Smart ass.

Did you miss where I said I would wait for testing to be done with a SC? If they don't offer it with a metallic core for SC applications, I'm just not interested. I don't trust ceramic cats nor do most fabricators. I am also willing to pay the extra cost for the metallic core if necessary.

I'm not expecting a Pegasus to air drop this thing to me tomorrow and have a leprechaun install it for me.

[husker741]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

If I could weld up a header with a ceramic cat it doesn't require some mythical ability to do the same with a metallic. Smart ass.

Did you miss where I said I would wait for testing to be done with a SC? If they don't offer it with a metallic core for SC applications, I'm just not interested. I don't trust ceramic cats nor do most fabricators. I am also willing to pay the extra cost for the metallic core if necessary.

I'm not expecting a Pegasus to air drop this thing to me tomorrow and have a leprechaun install it for me.

Not trying to be an asshole, but if you aren't interested, why are you still hanging around? Move on to the next set of catted headers that do this well and are less than $1k.

[shaunsweeney]

Are you kidding? Can you read?

I am making a suggestion to these guys before they release a product. If you don't want legitimate input, perhaps don't post about a new build in a forum until you are done with R&D. I thought this was the point of a forum (the free exchange of ideas)!

I asked about cat material. I was surprised to see them using ceramic. I suggested they use metallic core for potential SC application.

I asked for testing to be done before release of the product to ensure it is SC safe. They said they were going to test when weather improves. I am ok with that and am willing to wait for the testing. I once again suggest they use metallic core if they intend to do said testing. You jump in and add nothing useful to the discussion. Hmmmmm

[husker741]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

Are you kidding? Can you read?

I am making a suggestion to these guys before they release a product. If you don't want legitimate input, perhaps don't post about a new build in a forum until you are done with R&D. I thought this was the point of a forum (the free exchange of ideas)!

I asked about cat material. I was surprised to see them using ceramic. I suggested they use metallic core for potential SC application.

I asked for testing to be done before release of the product to ensure it is SC safe. They said they were going to test when weather improves. I am ok with that and am willing to wait for the testing. I once again suggest they use metallic core if they intend to do said testing. You jump in and add nothing useful to the discussion. Hmmmmm

I read just fine. You said you aren't interested in a ceramic core. That's fine. I saw they will do testing for SC applications. But right now, this is what they have and you are telling them how they should've asked for help because they are new to stuff like this? Do you not think they thought of what was best/most cost effective. What you are doing is not helping them, but it is telling them that they are wrong. That's not helpful. I'm gonna stop now because I don't want this thread to be a bitch fest. If you aren't interested, like you typed out and I read perfectly, then that's fine. But I just think it's childish to infer that they don't know how to fabricate something like this.