FR-S/BRZ vs. Genesis Coupe

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by fatoni

17

actually page 16

post 237

[BootpTraphik]

SO, I must say there is a whole lot of misinformation in this thread about the Genesis Coupe. That is before all you went completely off topic arguing about irrelevant things, its ok, it happens. This is after all FT-86 club

Being that I OWN a Genesis 3.8 I will now give you a totally biased comparison and breakdown about how all of you are completely wrong and no nothing about cars. That last part was me not being serious, you guys are all right, just trying to weed out the "serious folk". This is going to be a long post, so bear with me, but it is ON TOPIC! Yay!

1. Whats with everyone hating the window dip? I think it flows really well with the car and the overall style. Sure it could be a straight edge right back to the C pillar, but that would be like every other coupe on the market which doesn't really make it stand out too much does it? In other words, Hyundai went a bit unconventional, and that makes some feel uncomfortable. Get over it, lol.

2. All this business about G37 TOTALLY SMOKING V6 GC's OMG is nothing but balderdash. The 3.8 GC is on par with the G37, end of story (performance people, performance). In a straight line the G37 will probably start to pull up high, but its not a bit gap. Remember that the Genesis Coupe weighs a couple hundred pounds less than the G37 and that really helps in the corners. Hyundai was aiming right at the G37 when they made the car and it shows.

For the record, there are tonnes of stock 3.8 GC's in the 13 second window. Quoting Road & Track numbers is great and all but lets bring things back to real life here, it is possible to bring this car to 13s 1/4 mile and mid 5 second 0-60mph. However, the stock tires do suck, I will admit that lol! Next time quote Car & Driver numbers instead, they tend to suck less, plus the Genesis is included in there annual Lightning Lap, where it has performed pretty well.

3. The 2.0T is slow, everyone knows this, where is the dead horse when you need it? BUT the potential of that little 2 liter is great. With a simple tuning module you can achieve power levels not too far behind the 3.8, with less weight and more torque than the 3.8. This car is severely limited in stock form. The point is, find me another new turbo RWD coupe with that kind of platform and at that price.

4. The chassis of the GC is stiff as hell. I notice very little body roll and flex when hard corning in my GC. Every time I go over a sudden bump I am reminded of this by a teeth grinding SMASH that resonates all over the frame lol. The steering is a bit lacking on the highway and during regular driving, but when pushed it will communicate adequately. Anything the steering misses the body picks up and transmits to you via the seat.

5. Ugh, you say the GC is ugly? The Scion TC is basically a rebadged Corolla with 2 doors. Everything about its styling screams bland and, well to be honest, very Toyota *ahem* old person car *ahem*, sorry getting over a cold. (see what I did there? Don't worry, I'm just trolling )

6. FR-S vs Genesis Coupe, finally. To be honest, these are two very different cars. On one hand you have a light, nimble, low profile sports coupe and on the other hand you have a medium sized, solid, sleek, more Grand Touring type coupe.

Obviously the 3.8 GC would demolish the FT-86 in speed tests, such as at the drag or in acceleration tests. Your looking at an additional 112hp & 73ft-lbs of TORQES or whatever it is the kids are calling it. That and the Genesis has wider and arguably better tires STOCK, therefore more traction at launch and through corners. I say arguably better since apparently the FT is going to run some lame non-staggered 215/55R17 (?) with some sort of hippie green economy tires. The extra weight of the Genesis isn't exactly a bad thing on road courses and mountain roads. Various tests conclude, and it is general consensus among owners, that the GC carries that weight well through the corners and is able to keep speed and momentum. Refer to #2, if the 3.8 GC can stick with a G37 I think its safe to say that it will blow away an FT-86.

A better comparison between the two is the 2.0T, which comes stock with 210 bhp @ 6000 rpm and 223 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm. Thats a lot of torque down low for the FT to handle from a dig. Where the FT is going to win is up high once it gets spinning. So would I be correct to assume that the Genesis will take it from a dig and the FT will start to pull, and eventually pass the Genesis? I think so. They both apparently have the same or similar 0-60 times (~7 sec or something), so I think it may be a drivers race, but IMO I am going to give it to the FT overall due to similar power and a few hundred pounds less weight.

However, the FT-86 is a smaller, lighter and more nimble than both GC trim levels which means it will leave the GC in the dust in technical corners and in AutoX. The FT will communicate more to the driver because of what it is. It will feel fast and point well into corners. These are the characteristics of lighter, smaller, lower sports coupes. I think it is safe to say that the FT will be more of a "drivers car" than the Genesis.

7. Interior vs Interior. This is a very opinion based topic. I enjoy the interior in my car and do not like the pics of the FT-86's interior thus far.

Ok, yeah the Genesis is a cheap Korean car. There are hard pieces of plastic on the doors and on parts of the dash. The faux brushed aluminum accents scratch easy and do not look OMG intense. The "leather" steering wheel is not that bad, but kinda weird. The driver seat lacks a memory function which is exhausting. That's where the complaints for me end.

The center stack layout might look rather utilitarian but it works, and well! It is easy to use and does not require a bazilion buttons to operate. The climate controls are well within reach and the audio controls are simple and can be reached with your finger when your hand is on the gear shift. It is clean and effective. The steering wheel feels good in the hands and the buttons for cruise control are within reach of your thumb. The leather seats fit my frame well and hold me tight when under extreme corner induced G forces. They have held up well too, but I clean them regularly with leather treatment. Over the past year the interior has held up pretty well considering being a "cheap Korean car".

So what don't I like about the FT-86 interior? Well the seats look really nice, and I like the steering wheel, but the center stack looks way too busy for my tastes. Not only that but everything seems mounted too low. I would find myself rooting around the gear shifter to press any of those buttons or change the temp setting. That and the push start is buried in the mix. Why not put it beside the steering wheel where is is easily and intuitive to reach. I don't know how many of you have push start, but its awesome. I slide into my seat, simultaneously depress the clutch and go straight to the right of the steering wheel and press GO, easy as pie. Of course ignoring the "shing!" as it starts and "rattle rattle" of the single mass flywheel. But thats my car lol, not stock. Anyways back on topic, all the FT controls look recessed, it just seems difficult to me, not clean. I also do not care for the air vents, they look like they belong in a Ford pickup. That center cup holder thing, thats going to collect a lot of crap. Spill your coffee and your going to have an epic disaster. Not DD friendly. I will say at least the cup holders are back far enough, I always hit my bottles or coffee cups when I shift into 2nd, 4th or 6th.

Ok well I think thats enough for me. Hopefully I can steer this conversation back on topic. I could continue typing all night about comparisons but I will wait until you guys tear this apart before I continue any further.

[ryun84]

So. I like Mustang Dynos, but I don't like Mustangs.

[Dragonitti]

The new GC is a Butterface. "Everything looks good but her face". LOL...troll post there, but that's what I think of the new one when I see pics.

The new interior is just way to busy, not simple imo.

[BootpTraphik]

Yes I agree.

I find the new front end design too busy, and corporate? Fortunately most of the car still retains its original form on the exterior. The interior is meh. I like it because the materials are better and there are more soft spots, but the redesigned center stack seems to be a step in the wrong direction.

But that being said, I think front ends must be the hardest part of the car to design. I am even a bit off put by the production FT-86 front end. The side profile is amazing and from the rear quarter it looks great. I think the same way about the new GC.

Its going to be interesting to see these two cars side by side. I'll have to drive out and take a picture of one beside my GC when they get to the dealerships lol. I can't wait to see some track figures for the FT-86 too.

[BootpTraphik]

This forum is funny. People are REALLY sensitive about weight. Yes weight makes a big different in handling and overall performance, but I would not necessarily call 3400lbs overweight. I mean, it would be nice to drop 300 pounds, but you would certainly have to loose some key elements of the car, such as various creature comforts, safety mechanisms, and the relatively low cost of the platform.

The Genesis uses steel in many components as opposed to aluminum to reduce overall cost. The Genesis also has many safety features and lots of structural support to reduce body flex and maintain rigidity, as well as scoring pretty well in crash tests.

Anyways, if you compare the new Genesis Coupe with other vehicles you will see that it fits in rather well in terms of weight. Its NOT a pure sports car, it is a Touring Coupe, whatever the hell that is, and a daily driver with potential.

Curb Weights: Weight in lbs, various sources, approx. curb weight.
Latest Genesis Coupe (3.8 M/T) - 3,389

'12 MazdaSpeed3 - 3281
'12 VW Golf R - 3325
'12 Ford Mustang V6 - 3453
'12 Infiniti G37 - 3633
'11 Nissan 370z - 3291
'11 Subaru WRX STi 5 door - 3373
'08 Mitsubishi Evo X MR - 3594

Am I not comparing to the right cars here? Should I throw some old Toyota's and some Porsche's in the mix?

For shits and giggles:

Toyota Supra Mark IV (turbo) - 3417
Porsche Cayman S - 2954

[Mr.Jay]

wow didn't know the VW had gotten soo fat

[cassidy0998]

BootpTraphik,

I enjoyed your post. You made some very good points and enlightened me about a few things that I wasn't aware of. I am a big fan of the GC, but I do not own one. I'm simply considering it and several other cars as my new dd.


I am curious though, as you didn't bring it up - Since you own a current model GC, what is your opinion on the new GC? -Both performance wise and looks wise - I know this car has been revamped inside and out, mechanically and cosmetically - Do you think you might look into a new (2013 model) GC later down the road?

[cassidy0998]

And also, BootpTraphik

Thank you for bringing this thread back on topic!

[BootpTraphik]

@ cassidy0998. lol, this thread needed it! Here is my answer to your question.

I like the GenCoupe II (easier than saying 2nd gen gencoupe lol). The more pictures I see of the new coupe, the more I like it. The front end is busy, but I think with little work, maybe a lip kit, grill or even new bumper, you could easily change the whole appeal of the car. The overall body shape/design has not changed. The tail lights are different, but the rear bumper is very similar, if not the same, I can't confirm at this moment. The new rims are meh, but better than the 1st gen, but not better than the 1st gen 19's.

The new power is a blessing. Having the new 3.8 GDI (~340hp) is going to be nice, and same with the new NON GDI 2.0T Theta II (~270hp). I do not believe the weight will change (or get heavier) so thats a plus as well. I would expect suspension tweaking as the the first GC has some tracking issues on the highway and short bump stops. Most of this was addressed during some minor changest over the past 2 years, but I would assume they did some additional tweaking. These changes will no doubt help the straight line and track performance numbers while also helping daily driving.

The interior, see previous post. I don't hate it, but I find a few things a bit backwards in direction. Mainly just the center console. The rest is a simple improvement, nothing too fancy though.

I hope they have a better premium sound system. I have the 11 speaker Infinity system and it is good, but the quality is not there, in both sound and performance. I really enjoy having it, but its one of those things you know, when you think its not as good as it could be?

I hope the GenCoupe II has a better M/T. First gen is crap lol, but you all know that. FT-86 will definitely be better, I pray to the Car Gods lol. The new bazillion speed auto has me interested. However, they ditched ZF as the manufacturer and went to an in house design. Time will only tell how well that works out for them. The ZF in the first gen is awesome, very few problems.

Would I trade for one? No, I don't think anyone would buy my car lol! I am already pushing close to or equal to what the new 3.8 GDI is going to push so I don't think power is a concern for me. I like the front end of mine better, since I also have a different grill and a lip kit. Suspension is moot since I have a set of HSD coilovers ready to go in this spring when the coupe is out of storage.

Basically what I am saying is, I like my car way too much to give it up for a new one and a few new features (like telescoping steering wheel, screw you Hyundai!). The sound of my 3.8 with my CBE and the pickup of my OS Giken clutch and flywheel is just awe inspiring!

[old greg]

Originally Posted by BootpTraphik

1. Hyundai went a bit unconventional, and that makes some feel uncomfortable. Get over it, lol.

Uncomfortable has nothing to do with it, I just think the dip is ugly. But then, I think all Hyundais are ugly, it just comes down to personal preference.

[BootpTraphik]

Yes, exactly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just said that because that is one thing I consistently hear from people, usually something like "Whats with that weird dip? It looks dumb."

A good example is the giant wing on the WRX STi. I think it makes the STi stand out in a crowd, and gives it a muscular stance. However, most people think its overdone and off putting, usually something like "wtf is with that stupid wing?". The dip in the window of the Genesis is the same thing.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by old greg

Uncomfortable has nothing to do with it, I just think the dip is ugly. But then, I think all Hyundais are ugly, it just comes down to personal preference.

I feel the same way about every single Subaru except for the BRZ.

[cassidy0998]

@ BootpTraphik

Awesome, thank you very much for taking the time to answer that question. I'm looking forward to seeing some numbers of the new Gen Coupe. Both in performance and price.

I know a lot of people are wrapped up in the 86/FR-S/BRZ (obviously, this is the forum for them), but for those complaining about the lacking power, the GC is a great solution, and will most likely be the more affordable choice as well.

The 86/FR-S/BRZ will be great at taking those turns like everybody has been saying, but if I'm looking for a fun dd (which is what many other people are looking at the 86 for), I'm not convinced that I want to be taking risky little "precise" turns trying to have fun with it while cruising around. The 86 looks like it will be a GREAT auto-x car out of the box. Other than that though...... I'm not sold yet -

unless it's CHEAP!