Engine Oil for DD/Track

[glamcem]

for NA I would do 5w-20
and for FI 5w-30 should be fine.. I have been using Mobil 1 5w-30 for my supercharged BRZ on both street and track and change them every other track day (or 3k miles whichever comes first), Mobil 1 is pretty close specs to those more expensive brands and since you have to change your oil every time it sees above 280F I don't see any reason to get something more expensive ..Mobil 1 is also cheaper at Walmart so changing them often is not a big deal

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by glamcem

for NA I would do 5w-20
and for FI 5w-30 should be fine.. I have been using Mobil 1 5w-30 for my supercharged BRZ on both street and track and change them every other track day (or 3k miles whichever comes first), Mobil 1 is pretty close specs to those more expensive brands and since you have to change your oil every time it sees above 280F I don't see any reason to get something more expensive ..Mobil 1 is also cheaper at Walmart so changing them often is not a big deal

For you I would recommend the mobil 1 0w-40. It's a thin 40 and it's the european formula which is vastly superior than any USA Mobil 1 offering. Secondly, if you're seeing 280F oil temps at the track, you don't necessarily need to change your oil immediately but you DO need to run a 40 Cem because these cars do NOT like making oil pressure when the oil is very hot. That is extremely well documented on this very forum.

I run 0w-30 in my DD only FRS period. If I were doing double duty then the first thing I would switch to is a 0w-40.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

For you I would recommend the mobil 1 0w-40. It's a thin 40 and it's the european formula which is vastly superior than any USA Mobil 1 offering. Secondly, if you're seeing 280F oil temps at the track, you don't necessarily need to change your oil immediately but you DO need to run a 40 Cem because these cars do NOT like making oil pressure when the oil is very hot. That is extremely well documented on this very forum.

I run 0w-30 in my DD only FRS period. If I were doing double duty then the first thing I would switch to is a 0w-40.

That was the oil I was using last year with the same thing in mind Colin,
then I noticed that I was obviously missing an important point:

why do we want to see more oil pressure ? because it's a good indicator of how stable is the oil flow (fluidity) in the engine , well in theory yes but thinner oils do that naturally.. they're thinner so they flow better, get into the veins of the engine which ultimately balance the temps since it is the primary reason for the low temps ... so thicker doesn't necessarily mean more protective, well to some point yes .. if you think about it what would be the best oil if you keep your oil temps below 280 F, obviously the thinnest oil that you can get away with it..I've also heard many stories with people using 40 - 50 grade oil, racing teams use 15w-50 or 5w-50 oils but for race engines and special race oils AFAIK..

both me and my friends experienced the same thing when we switched back to 5w-30; the added friction was also responsible for the higher oil temps at track days... my friend's Miata is also boosted (KW kit) and he has full bolt on Camaro, similar results on all three cars .. it certainly has to do something with the tighter tolerances of the newer engines .. it might be different for your CRX though or any older engine perhaps.. my main concern now is the coolant temps so I will see how the Cosworth low temp thermostat work, I will also try to utilize that to operate the hybrid oil cooler I have in mind..

if you never tried extended Performance version, you might also want to take a look at it it's 5w-30 but on the higher side of the viscosity index, and pretty close to 0w-40 ..

for me, I'll just stick to what I have and address coolant temp and overheat issues at the core and continue changing my oil more often

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by glamcem

That was the oil I was using last year with the same thing in mind Colin,
then I noticed that I was obviously missing an important point:

why do we want to see more oil pressure ? because it's a good indicator of how stable is the oil flow (fluidity) in the engine , well in theory yes but thinner oils do that naturally.. they're thinner so they flow better, get into the veins of the engine which ultimately balance the temps since it is the primary reason for the low temps ... so thicker doesn't necessarily mean more protective, well to some point yes .. if you think about it what would be the best oil if you keep your oil temps below 280 F, obviously the thinnest oil that you can get away with it..I've also heard many stories with people using 40 - 50 grade oil, racing teams use 15w-50 or 5w-50 oils but for race engines and special race oils AFAIK..

both me and my friends experienced the same thing when we switched back to 5w-30; the added friction was also responsible for the higher oil temps at track days... my friend's Miata is also boosted (KW kit) and he has full bolt on Camaro, similar results on all three cars .. it certainly has to do something with the tighter tolerances of the newer engines .. it might be different for your CRX though or any older engine perhaps.. my main concern now is the coolant temps so I will see how the Cosworth low temp thermostat work, I will also try to utilize that to operate the hybrid oil cooler I have in mind..

if you never tried extended Performance version, you might also want to take a look at it it's 5w-30 but on the higher side of the viscosity index, and pretty close to 0w-40 ..

for me, I'll just stick to what I have and address coolant temp and overheat issues at the core and continue changing my oil more often

Just as an FYI, we were running 290F at the track with no oil cooler running Motul 8100 0w20 or 5w30. Our coolant temps however didn't go above 205 when we had the stock rad. Once we moved to the Koyo Rad the temps don't go over 196 on track and now with our Perrin Oil Coolers we don't see more than 238 on track for oil temps.

If you are seeing high coolant temps on track, even with stock radiator, you may have another issue going on with your car.

-mike

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

Just as an FYI, we were running 290F at the track with no oil cooler running Motul 8100 0w20 or 5w30. Our coolant temps however didn't go above 205 when we had the stock rad. Once we moved to the Koyo Rad the temps don't go over 196 on track and now with our Perrin Oil Coolers we don't see more than 238 on track for oil temps.

If you are seeing high coolant temps on track, even with stock radiator, you may have another issue going on with your car.

-mike

I have been using Koyo Rad for a long time in fact I've installed the Radiator along with the supercharger kit, so I don't have any experience with stock radiator when boosted.. on very hot days and extended sessions, I was able to see the coolant temps go as high as 230s on many occasions .. what kind of mods are there on this specific car? what are the average RPMs throughout the sessions? ambient temps? track or auto-x events?

without some serious mods done for cooling, I don't think it's possible to keep the coolant temps below 210-220 (even with the Koyo Rad) when boosted or me driving it..if you think about it OEM thermostat starts allowing the flow after 194F and fully open at 203F by the time , for that specific reason I recently got a Cosworth Racing thermostat which will be installed soon.. they claim it allows the flow at 169F and fully opened at 194F..my friend was able to lower his coolant temps by 15-20 degrees on his Miata and keep it stable at around 210-220F when running without a thermostat, with a thermostat it might be a little better

[AZP Installs]

We run 2 cars. A Spec86 Cup wheel to wheel race car doing 30+ min sprint races and 30 min sessions on track this is a full race car. Rpms are 5-7500 for the entire time. Our other car does DE and is similarly setup.

Do you run coolant? Water? Water wetter? Also do you have an oil cooler? When we tested the coolant-oil heat exchanger found on the 2015+ wrx we saw coolant temps hit 215-220. Once we went to a full oil cooler the coolant temps went back down to the 196-200 range.

-mike

[wbradley]

I use Mobil 1 0W40. It's pretty much the only household brand oil that is a pure class 4 PAO base stock oil. And, I understand you can pick it up pretty cheap on sale in the US.

M1 seems pretty good with our engines despite factory turbo EJ Subaru engines seem to burn it.

The lower cost means you can change your oil more frequently which you should do if you're going to track it.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by glamcem

why do we want to see more oil pressure ? because it's a good indicator of how stable is the oil flow (fluidity) in the engine

You've got part of the equation which "flow is good". Pressure is an important part of the equation too.. I'm totally fine with running as thin an oil as possible so long as target pressures are maintained. But if I can't make more than 50psi at 7k rpm with a 20wt oil at my operating temp (280f in your case) then I either need more viscosity or less temp.

What's your oil pressure at 7k rpms when your 30wt is at 280F?

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by glamcem

That was the oil I was using last year with the same thing in mind

More explanation:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=142

So yes, the thinner oil will be *a bit* better at shedding heat but please... PLEASE, don't blame your cooling system problems on your oil. Just fix your cooling system problem like AZP suggested, don't get a water/heat exchanger setup, get separate cooling systems for your coolant and oil. You're already experiencing a lack of cooling capacity no need to introduce an alternate option that allows your overly hot oil to remove cooling capacity of the new system.

Please achieve optimal oil pressure at your operating oil temp with whatever wt oil gets you to that point. Choosing an oil that's too thin simply because it "runs a bit cooler" most likely is robbing peter to pay paul for lack of a better euphemism. If you're dead set on running a 0w-30 come hell or high water, then you really need to bring down those oil temps.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

We run 2 cars. A Spec86 Cup wheel to wheel race car doing 30+ min sprint races and 30 min sessions on track this is a full race car. Rpms are 5-7500 for the entire time. Our other car does DE and is similarly setup.

Do you run coolant? Water? Water wetter? Also do you have an oil cooler? When we tested the coolant-oil heat exchanger found on the 2015+ wrx we saw coolant temps hit 215-220. Once we went to a full oil cooler the coolant temps went back down to the 196-200 range.

-mike

ok that explains it , I make a lot more hp than Spec cars so for stock power levels your modifications should be more than enough and I can understand how you were able to keep those temps that low..

I stayed away from the water wetters after I saw my friend had a bad experience with Redline water wetter (leaves gunk when the coolant is overheated), many people had similar issues with Redline but Amsoil seems to be fine,, either way, they only help to lower the coolant temps about 5-10 degrees on average (if works properly) ..

I have OEM oil cooler which I know is nowhere near close to the airtooil type of stack coolers but I had my reasons to keep the WRX-Forester oil cooler for a while, I will report back how my Cosworth and my hybrid oil cooler project goes

[AZP Installs]

the spec cars are not stock power.

But your issue is because you are using the OEM oil cooler.

If you track you should be using an external. Especially if you are FI.

You are going to do long term damage IMO to the motor if you run it at 280 on track constantly.

I will take 215-235 all day long.

Mike

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

You've got part of the equation which "flow is good". Pressure is an important part of the equation too.. I'm totally fine with running as thin an oil as possible so long as target pressures are maintained. But if I can't make more than 50psi at 7k rpm with a 20wt oil at my operating temp (280f in your case) then I either need more viscosity or less temp.

What's your oil pressure at 7k rpms when your 30wt is at 280F?

I looked but couldn't find the track logs that I took last year,
if you're referring to the instant drop at those levels (280F and 7k rpms) I have to say 280F is my ceiling and I immediately go for a cool down lap and fresh oil makes a lot better job on protecting the engine than the old-thicker oil ..

keep in mind, we all noticed a drop in our oil temps with 5w-30 like many other people who have done the switch ,so if I have to choose between lower oil temps over a slight disadvantage of the pressures I would always go with the lower oil temps since I see it as a preventive method,

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

More explanation:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=142

So yes, the thinner oil will be *a bit* better at shedding heat but please... PLEASE, don't blame your cooling system problems on your oil. Just fix your cooling system problem like AZP suggested, don't get a water/heat exchanger setup, get separate cooling systems for your coolant and oil. You're already experiencing a lack of cooling capacity no need to introduce an alternate option that allows your overly hot oil to remove cooling capacity of the new system.

Please achieve optimal oil pressure at your operating oil temp with whatever wt oil gets you to that point. Choosing an oil that's too thin simply because it "runs a bit cooler" most likely is robbing peter to pay paul for lack of a better euphemism. If you're dead set on running a 0w-30 come hell or high water, then you really need to bring down those oil temps.

Thanks Colin, that's what I am currently working on I am hoping that Cosworth thermostat with 30/70 mix should help be lower my coolant temps by 15-20 degrees which should ultimately change the effectiveness of the OEM oil cooler since it's coolant dependent


FYI, I have been using 5w-30 not 0w-30 since it gives more protection at higher temps

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

the spec cars are not stock power.

But your issue is because you are using the OEM oil cooler.

If you track you should be using an external. Especially if you are FI.

You are going to do long term damage IMO to the motor if you run it at 280 on track constantly.

I will take 215-235 all day long.

Mike

Like I said, I would never run the car 280 on track constantly and it's impossible the keep oil temps within 215-235 range with the mods I have on my car and the way I drive it
I will be happy if I can keep it at 240-260 range on a very hot day, that seems to be a lot more realistic range considering the power levels on my car