all motor any chance?

[industrial]

Simple version:

It's all about the volume of air being combusted per unit of time. If your engine is working at 9000 revolutions per second, it's effectively doing 1 (more or less) pump of air 9000 times a second. Any forced induction will compress the air before the engine pump can compress it more. It's like having 2 air pumps as opposed to just one. So the engine doesn't have to work as hard.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by Poodles

I've been through this conversation a ton with old school and new school guys alike. Even the old school guys are getting it now.

Turbos = displacement on demand and can allow a car to be "full retard" while being completely normal to drive.

A full NA build requires race gas all the time, doesn't want to idle, and has a terrible power band. It's also many times more $/hp than going FI.

this this this this this this this this

[celek]

My block is done,
Just ordered my 13:1 pistons
I have my crank.
Total displacement with be 2.3ltrs

https://www.facebook.com/BlueMisairuBRZ

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by GT86_PRAGUE

If I add turbo to my stock engine, will I be able to rev to 9000rpm on daily basis?

Why does this matter when you're making double the power an NA car would at that RPM range at a far lower RPM?

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

You make it sound like having a car is a purely rational endeavor.

True, but when you get spanked by someone that spent far far less than you it's gonna suck...

Originally Posted by GT86_PRAGUE

I was thinking more about that turbo doesnt help me to get to 9000rpm, it only helps me to get there quicker, but I need those internals anyway. So in that case you cant pull price/power argument because there is no substitute for forged internals.

You can make more power with FI on a stock motor than you'll make on a fully built NA motor, so your argument is without merit.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Poodles

True, but when you get spanked by someone that spent far far less than you it's gonna suck...

I don't get spanked by anyone because I'm not competing against anyone.

[airjonny]

IMO I think a harcore NA build would stand out alot more than FI. The FI gains will obviously be better hp/dollar, but wouldn't the N/A build have less reliability issues if done right?

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I don't get spanked by anyone because I'm not competing against anyone.

Anyone sinking this kind of coin into the car is going to be competing in some way. Don't kid yourself...

Originally Posted by airjonny

IMO I think a harcore NA build would stand out alot more than FI. The FI gains will obviously be better hp/dollar, but wouldn't the N/A build have less reliability issues if done right?

No, because boost isn't constant. High compression NA motors are always stressed. Not to mention high RPM's...

[Koa]

Originally Posted by airjonny

IMO I think a harcore NA build would stand out alot more than FI. The FI gains will obviously be better hp/dollar, but wouldn't the N/A build have less reliability issues if done right?

no.

refer to earlier posts about the NECESSITY for high-HP N/A cars having to run race fuel, shit idle, etc. 24/7 just to maintain that stuff.

Reliability is subject to build quality more than anything else

[airjonny]

Originally Posted by Koa

no.

refer to earlier posts about the NECESSITY for high-HP N/A cars having to run race fuel, shit idle, etc. 24/7 just to maintain that stuff.

Reliability is subject to build quality more than anything else

But don't the big turbo guys go through the same issues plus more moving parts?

[Koa]

Originally Posted by airjonny

But don't the big turbo guys go through the same issues plus more moving parts?

It's much more complex than just summing together all the components in a system.

High HP N/A motors have no 'vaccum/non-boost' threshold, and can only approach their frontier and enact a set force at any given load/rpm.

Turbo motors have the ability to effectively remain N/A in negative boost situations. Turbos are load based, thus one can stay out of boost and elect to not have their motor go through the stresses that a high HP N/A car cannot.

There's much more to running high HP, low displacement N/A than meets the eye. The outlay of costs to get significant gains pretty much entail that all else equal, the turbo guy can even blow his motor up and replace it before reaching the same amount of money spent.

This is all YMMV but the concepts hold to any application

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by airjonny

But don't the big turbo guys go through the same issues plus more moving parts?

No, because they can run low boost on pump gas can high boost for race gas.

It really is having your cake and eating it too.

[airjonny]

Originally Posted by Poodles

No, because they can run low boost on pump gas can high boost for race gas.

It really is having your cake and eating it too.

Nice I learned something today!

[Turdinator]

How did this become a turbo vs NA thread? There are plenty of those already.

OP, to my mind the biggest piece of the puzzle we are missing for an "all motor" build is cams and maybe intake manifolds. We have built blocks available, we have heads, large valves, a great selection of tuning methods and headers as far as the eye can see.

eg. You could get a fairly good setup together with Element Tuning heads and block, custom ground cams, motec M150, PTuning or JDL 4-1 headers (depending on the shape of torque curve you want) and of course supporting work on the intake side, port matching and big throttle body, Skunk2, Grimmspeed or Perrin big MAF intake... That is off the top of my head and I am not going to add up the cost of that list

[airjonny]

Will we see 220whp without E-85? Can it be done?