Open letter to Toyota and Subaru

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by TJ3000

Expecting a mid refresh model is most likely to not happen, that would mean that Toyota and Subaru would have to go back to the drawing boards to reformulate a plan to release another engine. It was hard enough for Toyota to even get Subaru on board with this joint project.

When you bought this car you should've done your homework and know that this was an underpowered car. Ya and so are civics but why do people fix those up? When I bought the car I was expecting a car more powerful than my wife's S2000 but it turned out her's was more powerful. Do I regret buying this car? Hell no, there are a lot of things this car excels at than the S2000, one thing is, I can have room to move around! I can recline my seat. I can hold a drift way better than an S2000. I'm not cramped on a tiny car (I'm 6'0") plus if I overnight parts from japan I'm sure I can decimate her S2000!

This car has potential and Scion and Subaru have released different trims maybe not for power just accessories. If this was solely a car that Toyota produced I'm sure we'd see a nice powerful engine, just look at the 2JZ or the 3SGTE. Toyota has there way of making an Engine fast and fuel efficient, but they can't give all their secrets away to another car company on the other hand Subaru has their ways too. The legendary boxer engine with Turbo's and AWD.

Basically two companies have to agree with redesigning an engine for more power something less likely to happen as Subaru wasn't a big fan of this project.

Toyota also hints saying all aftermarket trd parts can fit previous models doesn't that kinda hint off something?

So you take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have..... 86/BRZ

A mid refresh is definitely going to happen. It's been hinted at since the very beginning. How drastic of a change that refresh will be is the only unknown.

Why would you expect a car with 40 less hp to be me more powerful than the S2000? It sounds like you do not know how to read, maybe? Yes, you can order aftermarket parts, but so can the person with the S2000, and their better designed engine and double wishbone suspension will make more efficient use of those parts.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

..Dadhawk, don’t underestimate branding power. Both the Mustang & Camaro are long established product lines with lots of nostalgia attached to them. .

I understand that, and I've been around from the beginning on both. Both were sold from day one with a V6 or V8 , so the marketing model has always been there.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I understand that, and I've been around from the beginning on both. Both were sold from day one with a V6 or V8 , so the marketing model has always been there.

Minor correction. Mustangs did not receive a V6 for many years after release. In fact the majority of the first couple of runs were straight 6s. They produced so much blistering horse power and speed they could do 0 to 60 in about 1/2 a day! Make the Twins look like superstars for acceleration! I had two 64s both with 6 cylinder single barrels and they looked pretty but talk about slow!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by AzBRZ

To the orginal post: Porsche didn't make significant power changes to the 911 for ~10 years until the Turbo was introduced. The Cayman still has had only minor power tweaks..

1964 911: 128 hp
1966 911S: 158 hp
1973 911RS: 210 hp
1975 930: 260 hp

???

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Minor correction. Mustangs did not receive a V6 for many years after release. In fact the majority of the first couple of runs were straight 6s. They produced so much blistering horse power and speed they could do 0 to 60 in about 1/2 a day! Make the Twins look like superstars for acceleration! I had two 64s both with 6 cylinder single barrels and they looked pretty but talk about slow!

The '64 did come standard with the straight 6, but the Windsor v8 was an option with either 2 or 4 barrel carbs. Most are 6s but the v8s were available from day one.

[fatoni]

i love how everyone on every car forum ever knows the formula to produce the most successful car models ever. putting a single trim level of the miata (the most successful convertible in the history of cars) in the category of cars that dont get trim levels is evidence of your lack of knowledge. if you want to write a letter to toyota, write a letter to toyota.

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I understand that, and I've been around from the beginning on both. Both were sold from day one with a V6 or V8 , so the marketing model has always been there.

The Mustang & Camaro weren’t being introduced into a market segment which was flooded with options, thus needing to find a niche within that market to get a any traction. In fact it seems the opposite was true, the market was waiting for them, the Mustang especially looking at sales figures.

One could argue that the marketing strategy has failed as both have shown a decline in sales figures, where as the sports car market as a whole seems to be slowly increasing in size. I have to qualify the sports car market as "seems" due to there being clear description of what a 'sports car' is & thus the sales figures are suspect.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Although adding $20K in upgrades sounds horrible in reality I would be willing to bet that your car can compete with the "fastest" of the others out there. BUT still cost way less then a new Porsche!!!!!!!!!~!

You got it

My build goals were (in the order of importance) improved street comfort, safety on track, handling on track, power. No plans for further upgrades. Love driving this car and it's exactly what I hoped it would be. Don't miss my Boxster or Elise at all...I am fortunate to be able to afford fairly decent cars, and I don't regret my choice.

I need a lot more track seat time beyond four years of HPDE, and there will always be faster drivers in slower cars, but quite a few have been surprised with what this setup can do on tracks that favor momentum cars. Now it only takes track tires, track pads, several clicks on Ohlins, couple of cruise control stalk pulls to switch Ecutek map and a 5 sec push on the traction control button, to have some great fun on track.

I can't stress enough how great it is to be able to pack a separate set of wheels with stickier tires for track, with room for other essentials.

Significant modifications and track use come with risks, so I wouldn't recommend this upgrade path to anyone who can't afford to deal with issues/losses. I'll be really happy with my investment if the car doesn't break down much in 3+ years.

If toyobaru had made an "STI" version of this car, I, and many others I know, would have bought it instead.

[BlueDubbinTDI]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Horse shit.. Find another excuse..

Find another excuse? That's all that's wrong with this car lol

[medina619]

I think Toyota/Subaru hit it on the mark with the FRS/BRZ, its what the market wanted. A clean platform that has all the potential. I really think if it had all the bells and whistles we all dream of it would have priced most of us out. With the help of aftermarket this car can have what we all want....if you're willing to pay.

Just think what the FRS has done in the last couple of years in the import scene, it was like a shot of adrenalin. Toyota made a car that has great handling,rear wheel drive.......It made driving fun again!

[civdaddy]

Originally Posted by dp1

You got it

My build goals were (in the order of importance) improved street comfort, safety on track, handling on track, power. No plans for further upgrades. Love driving this car and it's exactly what I hoped it would be. Don't miss my Boxster or Elise at all...I am fortunate to be able to afford fairly decent cars, and I don't regret my choice.

I need a lot more track seat time beyond four years of HPDE, and there will always be faster drivers in slower cars, but quite a few have been surprised with what this setup can do on tracks that favor momentum cars. Now it only takes track tires, track pads, several clicks on Ohlins, couple of cruise control stalk pulls to switch Ecutek map and a 5 sec push on the traction control button, to have some great fun on track.

I can't stress enough how great it is to be able to pack a separate set of wheels with stickier tires for track, with room for other essentials.

Significant modifications and track use come with risks, so I wouldn't recommend this upgrade path to anyone who can't afford to deal with issues/losses. I'll be really happy with my investment if the car doesn't break down much in 3+ years.

If toyobaru had made an "STI" version of this car, I, and many others I know, would have bought it instead.

Is the 20k you put into you car just in parts? Or is that labor and parts?

[Braces]

Toyota does not need to improve the power levels because it has relatively no competition at it's price point for a rwd light car. If Nissan, Honda or other produces a lightweight rwd around 25K ... Toyota may need to act to stay relevant.

[thill]

When you talk about cars like the Mustang and Camaro you have to consider the average age of a Mustang buyer. It is in the 50 year old range. And the trend car manufacturers are seeing is that the largest demographic of all new car buyers is the 45-65 year old range and getting worse.

Sorry but the FT86 is not really a good car for that demographic. It is low to the ground (hard to get in and out of), does not have a powerful engine compared to a Camaro, Charger, or Mustang, and lacks amenities.

I love the car, but it will never appeal to most new Amercian car buyers.

The second thing one needs to consider is the yen to dollar. Remember when the FT86 was released the conversion rate was horrible for the yen and it most likely forced Subaru and Toyota to raise the price of the car and make less on each sale. The yen to dollar has improved for the Japanese, and I agree that they should consider a more powerful option, but it might not happen unless Toyota commits..

[dp1]

Originally Posted by civdaddy

Is the 20k you put into you car just in parts? Or is that labor and parts?

Parts and labor. Two spare sets of Enkei rims, three sets of new tires (winter/summer/track), JR SC and oil cooler, Ecutek tune/cable/dongle, Koyo rad, AP Racing Sprint BBK, SS lines, 4 sets of Carbotech pads, Ohlins R&T, several Whiteline suspension parts/bushings, SPL LCA, alignment, Exedy Stage 2 flywheel/clutch, OS Giken LSD, Crawford AOS, P&L headers/op/catted fp, Invidia Q300, toms, new fluids, black Toyota badges, Subaru homelink/compass dimming mirror, Perrin brake cylinder brace, Perrin motor mounts, clear side markers, 3M clear bra, Mtec shifter springs, heavy shifter knob, APR studs, Muteki lug nuts, chromoly lug nuts, spare rotors, rally armor mud flaps, AEM safety gauge in a custom panel, P3 gauge, etc.

Most important and costly lesson - do extensive research when selecting the shop and tuner