Tracking with Forced Induction

[DC2R]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Don't get me wrong I agree with you on most of the things you mentioned above but I never said gobs of power I actually mentioned that "this car lacks about 50 hp not crazy amount of hp" or solid power delivery ,,maybe I shouldn't have used numbers but say "healthy power delivery that is a better match to car's weight".. I gave that GT-R example to point out something...of course it's always better to learn with a slower car than a high HP car but for a guy who already saw "some" track days you get to those limits pretty quickly.. also many people on online discussion forums look down the other people's abilities and use phrases such as "car has plenty of power, learn how to handle that first and address other issues first then add more power".. please don't get me wrong I am not saying you said such a thing but I think you know what I am talking about, I am just tired of hearing this cliche you would be surprised how some young drivers are capable of, I used to think the same way then I realized we live in a different era that many youngsters can take advantage of internet and youtube to capture information a lot more efficiently than trial and error of 20+ years of driving (my case ugh)

So you think with header and tune(30whp increase) car would be where it needs to be? Or would ESC may be more fitting in your opinion?

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[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That's exactly what I'm saying. Then you got manifolds to deal with, additional heat from all the extra piping that has to hold exhaust gas that's radiating heat, additional oil heat that needs to be cooled off, the turbine itself radiating heat, etc.

So since everyone LOVES to say that their turbo setup runs cool, I'll say it again: Lets see if your turbo setup can survive 3 laps at the track with me driving.

Heat is an issue. The fact that Mercedes separated their hotside and coldside is precisely why the Mercedes engines are dominating in F1 right now. They eliminated a major source of heat.

Completely agree, and want to add ; in colder climates over boost might be an issue with an aftermarket turbo kit shoot I overboosted my stock turbo cars whereas the boost is limited by pulley in SC cars IIRC

Originally Posted by diss7

I had a bullet sc kit, with intercooler; and sold it because it got hot.

I blame the IC unit being too small.

F1 comparison is strange. Boxer has hot parts on bottom cool parts on top.

70% of the heat in the engine bay is from the engine itself, not the hot parts.

Just because you can overheat the car at the track doesn't make you a better driver by the way. The difference between a good driver and a great driver might be a second or two per lap, but you're only working with the same motor. A great driver doesn't magically load the engine more.

The key to this car is managing the airflow. Air in air out. I can assure you that's what I'll be focusing on with my new system.

I don't think it will be that hard.

I think F1 example is spot on since hot side and cold side in your mainstream turbos will be really close and cause heatsoak.. also "hot air rises" and what happens when those bottom parts see excessive heat?

I am having hard time finding track data from TC'd cars ..I would love to see some comparable data logs from track

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by DC2R

So you think with header and tune(30whp increase) car would be where it needs to be? Or would ESC may be more fitting in your opinion?

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nope, I am not sure how someone can utilize an ESC for track use since recharging might/should be an issue...and I think that 30whp increase with header and tune is overly optimistic and doesn't completely eliminate the TQ dip, I saw many dyno graphs with aftermarket headers and TQ dip was still there maybe with an UEL headers it can be eliminated but in that case car only makes additional 10-15 hp at top end (as opposed to EL headers)..

I would gladly pay the premium for the reliable NA power if it was offered from Subaru or Scion, like a "performance package" to gain 40-50 hp ..then again a "linear power" ..I believe this car deserves S2000 engine in it

[kiichiro]

Cooling oil after several sessions is the challenge

[mike the snake]

The engine bay is pretty sealed up, which doesn't let the hot air out.

The OEM design has the engine bay air exiting out under the car. I plan to improve on this by cutting a bigger opening in the metal skidplate, and adding rubber trip strips (like upside-down Gurney strips) to help pull more air out of the engine bay.

When going to a bigger aftermarket radiator and intercooler (which covers 90% of the grill opening), much of the stock air dams that direct air through the radiator are removed.
IMO fabricating new ducting/air dams to direct air through the radiator and intercooler will help a lot.
I also saw a BIG improvement in cooling by adding the radiator shroud, along with the bigger radiator and good fans.

Ducting for the oil cooler is probably necessary as well.

To get more air in, I have cut holes in the bumper (screens are black now), and installed a Drift Armor crash bar, which allows a lot more air in. Just these two things has lowered the engine bay temps a Lot.

Vented hood with proper vents is probably also needed for tracking.

[Reaper]

Pull the windshield wiper cowl out.

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[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by glamcem

nope, I am not sure how someone can utilize an ESC for track use since recharging might/should be an issue...and I think that 30whp increase with header and tune is overly optimistic and doesn't completely eliminate the TQ dip, I saw many dyno graphs with aftermarket headers and TQ dip was still there maybe with an UEL headers it can be eliminated but in that case car only makes additional 10-15 hp at top end (as opposed to EL headers)..

I would gladly pay the premium for the reliable NA power if it was offered from Subaru or Scion, like a "performance package" to gain 40-50 hp ..then again a "linear power" ..I believe this car deserves S2000 engine in it

The ECS will be limited to Street and Auto X but not road racing.

[DC2R]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

The ECS will be limited to Street and Auto X but not road racing.

Forgot about the recharge you are right. Hard coming from VTEC engines with the smooth power delivery

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[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by DC2R

Forgot about the recharge you are right. Hard coming from VTEC engines with the smooth power delivery

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The ecs will be great for street, canyon carving and auto x. The down low torque is there the car really needs some more power.

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[DC2R]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

The ecs will be great for street, canyon carving and auto x. The down low torque is there the car really needs some more power.

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Yeah it's the torque where that thing excels. Got open flash headers on the way. Hopefully that will keep me satisfied for a bit. The ptuning kit is the only turbo that I can sees good cooling happening.

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[mike the snake]

What would be REALLY cool is a hybrid turbo a-la F1, where the electric motor spools a regular turbo up, so no turbo lag.

The battery should last longer only having to spool the turbo until it's making boost from exhaust.

The electric motor would reside between the two halves of the turbo, further separating the hot side from the cold side.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by glamcem

...and I think that 30whp increase with header and tune is overly optimistic and doesn't completely eliminate the TQ dip, I saw many dyno graphs with aftermarket headers and TQ dip was still there maybe with an UEL headers it can be eliminated but in that case car only makes additional 10-15 hp at top end (as opposed to EL headers)..

I would gladly pay the premium for the reliable NA power if it was offered from Subaru or Scion, like a "performance package" to gain 40-50 hp ..then again a "linear power" ..I believe this car deserves S2000 engine in it

Try 200whp on pump gas 91 with UEL headers, op, fp, and a really good tuner. That's just NA. No effective torque dip, and it's even better.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Try 200whp on pump gas 91 with UEL headers, op, fp, and a really good tuner. That's just NA. No effective torque dip, and it's even better.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

DynoJet maybe, but most people will not hit that number.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

DynoJet maybe, but most people will not hit that number.

Try Mustang dyno.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.