Tein suspension. YUNOMOREPOPULAR ??

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Look up the thread about how TEIN treated a forum member when he lent them his car for research and parts development...that was the start of TEIN being irrelevant in this community.

The other part...there are so many better alternatives in this market.

Ultimately, an agreement was reached by that member and Tein, but of course, that part was never posted...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Have you already made your mind up?

Every car with teins fitted (generally imports as they arrive off the boat from Japan), had had a hideous ride, almost feeling like it's riding on the bump stops. This may just be down to kids choosing the wrong springs or it could just mean crap suspension.

I've experienced bc's on an 86 with 4k springs all round and the ride was arguably better than stock, however I didn't drive it with anger so not sure how handling was affected. Laws of physics dictates lowering the car does not improve ride and handling together!

Come give us a visit. You can go for a ride in the latest prototype valving for our custom spec Teins

[diss7]

Everyone in the world complains about their local roads, including me. Especially after the earthquake here.

But, of all the places I've been in the world, I have never experienced numerous potholes on highways/freeways, like I did when I was in LA last year.

[diss7]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Come give us a visit. You can go for a ride in the latest prototype valving for our custom spec Teins

*sigh* I wish I could do this. (I know you weren't talking to me btw)

Might have to find a reason to visit US again. Nothing better than sampling something first hand; which is what I did with the Bullet S/C two weeks ago.

[Gixxersixxerman]

I had Tein on my 96 hatch, back when they came out.. Was a phenomenal ride and I can't say anything bad about them... Back then.. Now it a different story, I had every intention of getting Tein until I spoke to a shop that's well regarded on here and was basically told, unless you pull the trigger for the higher end sets, they make junk, they "sold out in the name of sales" I call them street posers... People that ruin their handling just in the name of looks.. People that spend 30k on a car but 800-900$ on suspension, or 500$ on wheels.. Just to look good.. I've rode in a car with the low end Tein, it rides like crap, same as BC, Stance and that crap.. Of course the owners think it's amazing.. It's stiff and bouncy.. You know because race car.. When the people that sell the product recommends something else over everything but the higher end stuff that tells me something..

The "minimum" coil over I would use is fortune auto.. Living down there that probably an expensive choice,and having a Tein shop next to you might be your best bet.. I run my RSR and love them, but I haven't been to the track or autoX yet to test them completely.. I'll give my review on that top when I finally get the chance.. RSR with the rubber top hat fit you criteria but I don't know what the price is there.. I haven't noticed any mOre NVH then normal, BUT I have a greddy EVO exhaust and it is quite loud..

So the Tein and the rest of the crap cheap units, ride like shit... That's the only way to describe it shit.. Bouncy harsh crap.. Maybe it's not dampened to the springs, maybe custom springs will help it.. But out of the box, dropped to the ground like most people that buy cheap crap do, it rides horrible..

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by diss7

I'm reading a lot of opinions, but nothing that backs them up.

"There's better options out there"
1. Like what?
2. Why are they better?
3. What (specifically) is bad about Tein? (Not, I've heard this, or Ive driven on a 2nd hand set and they were shit, or dumbed-down restaurant analogies) Facts.

I just can't accept that a brand like Tein gets to the size that they are, by continually putting out 'over sprung garbage' <-- And, how does that even make sense anyway, as the purchaser YOU choose the spring rate. The Street Advance kit is 5kg F & R. Everyone wanks over RCE Springs in standard shocks, and they're 4.5kg F & R.

I'll requote myself...

A lot of this has to do with different tuning philosophies.

First off, keep in mind that Japanese roads are better maintained than most American and European roads.

Japanese companies and most west coast philosophies revolve around high spring rates, properly damping those high spring rates, and maximizing cornering speeds.

European companies and most east coast philosophies revolve around softer spring rates, properly damping those high spring rates, and getting big horsepower to blast down straights.

The lower spring rates help the car squat and put power down, while higher spring rates help maximize cornering speeds.


Here's a prime example: Element Tuning is an east coast shop. HUGE power in their FRS, but use lower spring rates. Robispec/Evasive/CSG are west coast shops. None of us are using big power, but we all use high spring rates.

Another example: Look at the cars that manufacturers make. Japanese "high performance" cars tend to be light, lower power, and higher spring rates, emphasizing handling. LF-A, NSX, RX-7, S2000, FR-S, etc. The R35 GT-R is the exception here. European and American cars tend to make big power with softer rates. Viper, Corvette, M cars, AMG cars, S line (Audi) cars, etc. Again, Ferrari is the exception here, not the rule.

Third example: This is drawing on my personal experience. West coast track S2000s all run high spring rates. They typically run 16k square or higher springs, similar to our CSG-Spec SRC for the S2000. (which, combined with a bucket, ride better than stock over all but dips and potholes). However, a forced induction S2k on the west coast is almost unheard of for track duty. Even Evasive's S2k had a very short life in FI form. (Full disclosure, we are currently developing a FI s2k, but are maintaining the typical west coast aero/suspension setup). East coast track S2000s are all Forced induction, but typically run between 8 and 12k spring rates.

[diss7]

There is actually a local fortune auto dealer. I'll hit him up. Cheers!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Gixxersixxerman

I had Tein on my 96 hatch, back when they came out.. Was a phenomenal ride and I can't say anything bad about them... Back then.. Now it a different story, I had every intention of getting Tein until I spoke to a shop that's well regarded on here and was basically told, unless you pull the trigger for the higher end sets, they make junk, they "sold out in the name of sales" I call them street posers... People that ruin their handling just in the name of looks.. People that spend 30k on a car but 800-900$ on suspension, or 500$ on wheels.. Just to look good.. I've rode in a car with the low end Tein, it rides like crap, same as BC, Stance and that crap.. Of course the owners think it's amazing.. It's stiff and bouncy.. You know because race car.. When the people that sell the product recommends something else over everything but the higher end stuff that tells me something..

The "minimum" coil over I would use is fortune auto.. Living down there that probably an expensive choice,and having a Tein shop next to you might be your best bet.. I run my RSR and love them, but I haven't been to the track or autoX yet to test them completely.. I'll give my review on that top when I finally get the chance.. RSR with the rubber top hat fit you criteria but I don't know what the price is there.. I haven't noticed any mOre NVH then normal, BUT I have a greddy EVO exhaust and it is quite loud..

So the Tein and the rest of the crap cheap units, ride like shit... That's the only way to describe it shit.. Bouncy harsh crap.. Maybe it's not dampened to the springs, maybe custom springs will help it.. But out of the box, dropped to the ground like most people that buy cheap crap do, it rides horrible..

As with anything else, find a great shop close to you, and use the product they're most familiar with, and you'll likely be happiest with the end result

[diss7]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

A lot of this has to do with different tuning philosophies.

First off, keep in mind that Japanese roads are better maintained than most American and European roads.

Japanese companies and most west coast philosophies revolve around high spring rates, properly damping those high spring rates, and maximizing cornering speeds.

European companies and most east coast philosophies revolve around softer spring rates, properly damping those high spring rates, and getting big horsepower to blast down straights.

The lower spring rates help the car squat and put power down, while higher spring rates help maximize cornering speeds.


Here's a prime example: Element Tuning is an east coast shop. HUGE power in their FRS, but use lower spring rates. Robispec/Evasive/CSG are west coast shops. None of us are using big power, but we all use high spring rates.

Another example: Look at the cars that manufacturers make. Japanese "high performance" cars tend to be light, lower power, and higher spring rates, emphasizing handling. LF-A, NSX, RX-7, S2000, FR-S, etc. The R35 GT-R is the exception here. European and American cars tend to make big power with softer rates. Viper, Corvette, M cars, AMG cars, S line (Audi) cars, etc. Again, Ferrari is the exception here, not the rule.

Third example: This is drawing on my personal experience. West coast track S2000s all run high spring rates. They typically run 16k square or higher springs, similar to our CSG-Spec SRC for the S2000. (which, combined with a bucket, ride better than stock over all but dips and potholes). However, a forced induction S2k on the west coast is almost unheard of for track duty. Even Evasive's S2k had a very short life in FI form. (Full disclosure, we are currently developing a FI s2k, but are maintaining the typical west coast aero/suspension setup). East coast track S2000s are all Forced induction, but typically run between 8 and 12k spring rates.

Reading between the lines, are you saying that a quality coilover can be as comfortable as stock, even with 10kg + spring rates; and more comfortable than a cheap coilover (say like the lower end Teins) with a 5kg spring?

In my mind, the springs cause harshness. The firmer they are, the harsher the ride will be. Am I wrong? (likely)

[Gixxersixxerman]

Originally Posted by diss7

There is actually a local fortune auto dealer. I'll hit him up. Cheers!

I know of two shops that can run what ever they want and they choose FA, TSI in El Paso, in which I've been in that car and it rides great. And Speed factory that came down to the expo here in Vegas and blew everyone else away in the autoX and did really well for never being at the track at streets of willow.. They can run anything they want and choose FA.. That's why I looked at them.. For me it came down to the awesome deal I got on the RSR that I wanted and the fact that around the track, I couldn't believe the ride and the speed at which Moto was lapping..

[Gixxersixxerman]

Originally Posted by diss7

Reading between the lines, are you saying that a quality coilover can be as comfortable as stock, even with 10kg + spring rates; and more comfortable than a cheap coilover (say like the lower end Teins) with a 5kg spring?

In my mind, the springs cause harshness. The firmer they are, the harsher the ride will be. Am I wrong? (likely)

I didn't understand this at all either, until I rode with them.. When he told me his spring rates I told him he was lying lmao... It's all down to the valving, but I'm sure mike can go I to way more detail

[diss7]

Originally Posted by Gixxersixxerman

I know of two shops that can run what ever they want and they choose FA, TSI in El Paso, in which I've been in that car and it rides great. And Speed factory that came down to the expo here in Vegas and blew everyone else away in the autoX and did really well for never being at the track at streets of willow.. They can run anything they want and choose FA.. That's why I looked at them.. For me it came down to the awesome deal I got on the RSR that I wanted and the fact that around the track, I couldn't believe the ride and the speed at which Moto was lapping..

Just got a quote for FA.

Yes the 500 series is $1699 to you.
They come with 6/6k rates if you want to keep the ride similar to stock.
Actually they will ride better than the stock suspension! and handle better as well. Thanks to Fortune Autos digressive valving.

I've sold a few sets to guys in Australia, they have all been VERY happy with the ride quality and performance.

The front has adjustable camber and a pillow ball mount, but you can get spring binding noises so what Fortune Auto offer is a roller bearing upgrade under the pillow ball and it takes away all the noises. Thats an extra $110.
http://www.fortune-auto.com/radialbearingmounts.htm

Fortune Autos coilovers are very comparable to all the high spec euro brands like KW, Koni etc. So you get a low car that rides Perfectly smooth.

Thats NZD obviously, so make look high to you US guys. But, thats only $200 more than a set of BC's here...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by diss7

Reading between the lines, are you saying that a quality coilover can be as comfortable as stock, even with 10kg + spring rates; and more comfortable than a cheap coilover (say like the lower end Teins) with a 5kg spring?

In my mind, the springs cause harshness. The firmer they are, the harsher the ride will be. Am I wrong? (likely)

Specifically, it'll be more comfortable than stock in *most* settings. Small imperfections, bot dots, little bumps, etc will all be absorbed by the suspension. BIG dips, parking lot speed bumps, etc will not; they get transmitted to the chassis.

The test we use is "the girl test". In the case of suspension, can a girl put on her makeup in the car, on the way out to dinner? With the 16k springs on the CSG-SRC for the S2k, yes. We're still working on refining the damping on the SRC for the BRZ to get to that point, it's not quite there yet.

[ajcacio]

I had a set of Tein Flex about six years ago on my old WRX; they were hot garbage (rode rough and were oversprung and underdamped.) My buddy bought a set of street flex and I was shocked at how well the rode. I bought a set for myself and autocrossed on them for the first time this weekend...I finished 38th/140 PAX. Not bad for just coilovers and 255 Michelin pilot super sports. Do I think they can compete with Ohlins or KW? Not a chance. But for a budget-ish coilover, Tein has their shit together way more than they used to.