First week off to a bad start, and a bunch on non-starts

[BCUZ BXR]

We'll see. I just filled up today, maybe I'll go for a long drive before dinner. That thought was in the back of my mind

[Khazzy]

You do not need to hold the button that long, dealer idiots, but yes there is a clear problem here. I would think Gas as well. If that is not it, show them these videos too.

[BCUZ BXR]

After stalling a few times just this evening it threw a P0451 code. I know the gas cap is on secure.

[No Brakes]

i just asked my friend who used to work at a subaru dealer if their scan tool had the ability to tell the tech if a code was current or stored so even if the code has gone away the dealer should be able to tell you what the code was.

[BRZnut]

Possible causes
- Faulty Evaporative Emission System (EVAP) Pressure Sensor
- Evaporative Emission System (EVAP) Pressure sensor harness is open or shorted
- Evaporative Emission System (EVAP) Pressure sensor circuit poor electrical connection
- Faulty Engine Control Module (ECM)



Let us know what happens when you go back to the dealer

[BCUZ BXR]

Originally Posted by No Brakes

i just asked my friend who used to work at a subaru dealer if their scan tool had the ability to tell the tech if a code was current or stored so even if the code has gone away the dealer should be able to tell you what the code was.

That's what makes me think the dealer never really looked too hard, they said they didn't see anything the first time (CEL had come on and then gone off)

[rmjjensen]

It looks like it's an immobilizer / security issue and you probably need a new ECM.

Have you tried using the other RF key they gave you? Make sure you only have 1 key in the car at a time (duh, but figured I'd put it out there).

[rmjjensen]

It looks like it's an immobilizer / security issue and you probably need a new ECM.

Have you tried using the other RF key they gave you?

[mikalem]

Going to bet immobilzer/ECU problem - I have a limited manual as well, although sometimes (happens a lot if I have a laptop in my lap with the fob in my left pocket, usually when getting ready to datalog) the car will simply fail to try and turn over - seems yours at least gets that far. Might try moving the fob closer to the button on start up, see if that gets it to turn over correctly every time.... perhaps just a bad battery in the fob? Good luck, sucks you have to deal with this.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by mikalem

Going to bet immobilzer/ECU problem - I have a limited manual as well, although sometimes (happens a lot if I have a laptop in my lap with the fob in my left pocket, usually when getting ready to datalog) the car will simply fail to try and turn over - seems yours at least gets that far. Might try moving the fob closer to the button on start up, see if that gets it to turn over correctly every time.... perhaps just a bad battery in the fob? Good luck, sucks you have to deal with this.

That will happen on almost all cars with smart key, if I keep my key in my left pocket, sometimes my FR-S will fail to detect it... its also happens with in my mothers lexus.

But in those cases, the car just doesn't respond, not try to start and shut down...

[BCUZ BXR]

Of course when I dropped the car off at the dealership today it acted just fine, event though it did it 3 out of 5 times I started the car today!

I showed the guy one of the videos and then he was a bit more understanding and optimistic. We'll see what happens now...

[SigmaHyperion]

To go back to the immobilizer discussion, are you possibly bringing an additional key with you to the dealership to give to them? Is there something about the way you demo it that has you put the key in a different pocket (I've got a weird subconscious habit of, whenever I pump gas, my key always ends up in the opposite pocket from normally).

Just thinking of possible reasons why it may be difficult to reproduce.

[BCUZ BXR]

Quick update:

The car spent some more time at the dealership, and over 2 days, 40+ startups, and 2 test drives they were not able to replicate the issue. I headed down and went on a 30 minute test drive simulating the conditions in which it most commonly occurs. Of course I couldn't get it to do it at all either. We kicked around a few ideas; RFID interference from other devices, ECM getting confused by button being held down, bad wiring in switch... I took possession of the car again, but left it at the dealership until I could get a ride down in the evening. I got there after the service department staff left, and of course then the issue arose again!

I decided to systematically test out the possible causes we talked about, and started with the idea that the ECM is getting confused. Now that I just "poke" the button to start it, it starts up 100% of the time. It seems like the ECM was getting confused (inconsistently) or there is a bad connection somewhere. Both of which still seem like an issue to me, but at least there is a workaround for now.

I talked to a buddy of mine who has a Hyundai Veloster and said that his gets "confused" if the button is held down too. However, there seems to be no consistency with how long it takes for it to get confused, or consistency with it getting confused in the first place (the service tech held the button down for multiple seconds after a successful startup and got no results).

[mav1178]

I don't think this is an issue.

http://techinfo.subaru.com/proxy/712...316DSTIS_4.pdf

Page 167:

Stopping the engine
Do not touch the push-button ignition switch during driving.
When the push-button ignition switch is pressed for 3 seconds or longer or
pressed 3 times successively, the engine will stop. When the engine stops,
the brake booster will not function. A greater foot pressure will be required
on the brake pedal.
The power steering system will not operate either. A greater force will be
required to steer, and it may result in an accident.

I think you're inadvertently telling the engine to turn off, since you're holding it down for more than 3 seconds.

I've always started my car by just pushing the button once and releasing immediately, have yet to run into any start issue.

-alex