GT5 vs Forza 4

[82mm 4g63]

No road surface feel? Forza has had road surface feel since the first one 6 years ago. I definitely feel the road textures change with the Speed Wheel controller I'm using. I don't play with a D pad controller, not sure if that what you use?

As far as game physics, they're pretty damn even. I know Pirelli tires helped with the Forza physics for F4. DriveCult even says they're better.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Hm... that excuse is for ppl that only play the game lil bit. X1 can be use in limited races. NASCAR race at Daytona is annoying? Try 24hrs at Nur. That's annoying... but that's the real race, not fantasy here. So why not try em out, cuz in real life I highly doubt no one in here gonna be doing that in real life.

my point was that towards the end, the diminishing returns take the appeal of the game away. the 24 hr nurburg is no more real than nascars at daytona. the point is it all sucks and the cars you get for things like that arent worth the trouble. those races arent fun. i dont need to try a 24 hr race to know i dont want to do it. the game is fun but it is too easy to ramp up the level of car too fast. i enjoy running the sunday cup 100 times to get a turbo and suspension for my civic. when you can get into a jgtc car in the first day it just gets old fast. that doesnt mean its not my favorite racing game ever

[Want.FR-S]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

^^I ask myself sometimes...Is there an end to GT5? I still haven't even completed the game and I've been playing it on a regular since it came out. It's just MASSIVE in Content.

Once you finished the endurance series in both A-spec and B-spec, you reached 100%, You can still run seasonal races or time/drift trials. Some of the time trials are really fun and challenging.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

No road surface feel? Forza has had road surface feel since the first one 6 years ago. I definitely feel the road textures change with the Speed Wheel controller I'm using. I don't play with a D pad controller, not sure if that what you use?

As far as game physics, they're pretty damn even. I know Pirelli tires helped with the Forza physics for F4. DriveCult even says they're better.

Surely I'm not the first person to tell you the game has a "floating" feel to it? It's one of Forza's biggest complaints to date.

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/fo...howThread.aspx

Originally Posted by fatoni

i dont know about that. i think things just kinda get impossible or really have diminishing returns. there really isnt any driving factor once you get the redbull car. i cant see myself doing any endurance races anymore and the nascar race at daytona is pretty fucking annoying

It's pretty massive. Between licences, Arcade mode, Endurance races (in some cases taking literally 24hrs to complete) in both Aspec and Bspec, Online mode, Remote racing via your computer, Special challenges and the increasing number of Seasonal events the end is not near. This game is HUGE. Then again, it is on a Blue Ray.

Redbull car? I have two and they have the least amount of miles on them. I fancy the normal everyday cars and usually in the 400pp-550pp online rooms as anyone can drive a built race car, but not everyone can tune those street cars properly.

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

There is a point where enough is enough though. WoW is never ending, doesn't mean it's still fun to play 6 years later. It's a whole lot of the same old crap with a new wrapper.

Like Fatoni said, diminishing returns plays a huge part on "completion" status. Make something impossible and you'll never be 100% complete. If you want it to be enjoyable, set realistic goals that players actually want to complete.

I was still playing GT4 when GT5 came out.

Originally Posted by Snaps

I really think you need to go away and play the game before you try and make arguments that you clearly know very little about (Not being a **** here, you do need to go and try it IMO)

So, you going on record to say that Forza 4 is a complete evolution from Forza 3 and they are not similar in any way? The difference between GT4 and GT5 is an evolutionary gap imo. Is it the same with F3 and F4? Or did they just add into F4 to make it better than F3. Like there isn't a gap in Modern Warfare 3 and Black Ops, just better content.

Originally Posted by Snaps

I wasn't arguing physics, we all know GT5 physics are better. Though F4 is infinitely better than Shift 2.

I've always thought F4 was better than anything NFS related for sure.

Originally Posted by Snaps

If you're talking about how when you even turn the wheel a little it goes all the way... then I don't consider that a steering assist, it's just how the designers have made the controller work. It's determined by how long you hold the stick/wheel to a certain direction, not how far you turn it. I can see this being a problem for the hardcore people using wheels though. It's not all that realistic.

Road feel is a lot better than Forza 3... Not perfect, but they're getting there.

Once again, Shift 2 is NOTHING compared to this game.

No, that's not active steering, that's just inaccurate compatibility with steering wheels you are describing. If you are using a wheel, then is SHOULD be based on how far you turn it. That would be an accurate representation, and yea pretty mundane but can be a gripe for wheel players. Just don't see the logic behind not following the true motion of the wheel.

Shift 2 floats on the surface, that's my only reason for cross examining it.

Originally Posted by Want.FR-S

Once you finished the endurance series in both A-spec and B-spec, you reached 100%, You can still run seasonal races or time/drift trials. Some of the time trials are really fun and challenging.

Working on Tsukuba 9hr's now, have about 3 or 4 A-spec one's done. Done all B-spec Endurance races though. 24hr races are truly for the hardcore. Saving that for last.

[Dragonitti]

GT5 wins Joysticks 2011 Award for Best Racing game.

http://www.goldenjoystick.com/bright...=1231067345001

I think I need to go get Dirt 3 as it was runner up to GT5.

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Surely I'm not the first person to tell you the game has a "floating" feel to it? It's one of Forza's biggest complaints to date.
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/fo...howThread.aspx

And surely I'm not the first to tell you Forza 4 is not Forza 3. Did you happen to read the response from the forum members? Have you played Forza 4 enough to pass your own judgement on the float feel? IMO There is no floating feel at all. In comparison, I've only completed three races in GT5, but I don't feel any floating feeling in either one of them. One of the main things that pulled me away from GT years ago was the way you feel like you're really driving the car and not just steering it.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

I was still playing GT4 when GT5 came out.

Good for you, I still play Starcraft Brood War even with SC2 out now. Doesn't mean I'm doing anything new with SC1, but it's a game I enjoy playing. Doesn't take 5 years to complete GT4, if that was what you're insinuating?

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

So, you going on record to say that Forza 4 is a complete evolution from Forza 3 and they are not similar in any way? The difference between GT4 and GT5 is an evolutionary gap imo. Is it the same with F3 and F4? Or did they just add into F4 to make it better than F3. Like there isn't a gap in Modern Warfare 3 and Black Ops, just better content.

Not directed at me, but I don't believe F4 is a complete evolution from F3, it was F1 that was a complete evolution from other racing games like GT1-3. They just improve upon each iteration of Forza with every release. GT needed an evolution from GT1-4, if 5 accomplished that good for the GT franchise. Only took 13 years.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

I've always thought F4 was better than anything NFS related for sure.

lol. That's like saying, I've always thought GT5 was better than the Juiced racing franchise. IMO NFS shares their niche with PGR. They don't compare to GT or Forza.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Working on Tsukuba 9hr's now, have about 3 or 4 A-spec one's done. Done all B-spec Endurance races though. 24hr races are truly for the hardcore. Saving that for last.

The endurance races were awesome back in F1, but I haven't tried any in F4 yet. One thing I love with Forza is training your avatar to sit in for you. They learn your technique and race like you race.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

GT5 wins Joysticks 2011 Award for Best Racing game.

I think I need to go get Dirt 3 as it was runner up to GT5.

Forza 4 wasn't out in time to be nominated for the award this year. If it had been, it would've beaten GT5. If F3 can beat GT5 in 2010 surely F4 would've beaten GT5 too.

[dalli]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

GT5 wins Joysticks 2011 Award for Best Racing game.

http://www.goldenjoystick.com/bright...=1231067345001

I think I need to go get Dirt 3 as it was runner up to GT5.

dirt 3 is very fun, i played it with the g27 wheel.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

And surely I'm not the first to tell you Forza 4 is not Forza 3. Did you happen to read the response from the forum members? Have you played Forza 4 enough to pass your own judgement on the float feel? IMO There is no floating feel at all. In comparison, I've only completed three races in GT5, but I don't feel any floating feeling in either one of them. One of the main things that pulled me away from GT years ago was the way you feel like you're really driving the car and not just steering it.

Game reviews have said the driving physics were "Forza". Which to me translates into some floating driving since Forza 3 was that way.

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

Good for you, I still play Starcraft Brood War even with SC2 out now. Doesn't mean I'm doing anything new with SC1, but it's a game I enjoy playing. Doesn't take 5 years to complete GT4, if that was what you're insinuating?

No but it's not completed in a weekend either or even a month.

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

Not directed at me, but I don't believe F4 is a complete evolution from F3, it was F1 that was a complete evolution from other racing games like GT1-3. They just improve upon each iteration of Forza with every release. GT needed an evolution from GT1-4, if 5 accomplished that good for the GT franchise. Only took 13 years.

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

Forza 4 wasn't out in time to be nominated for the award this year. If it had been, it would've beaten GT5. If F3 can beat GT5 in 2010 surely F4 would've beaten GT5 too.

Sorry, but no version of Forza has even come close to outselling GT EVER. Kinda hard to be voted #1 when you get outsold by millions of copies.

[Snaps]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

It's pretty massive. Between licences, Arcade mode, Endurance races (in some cases taking literally 24hrs to complete) in both Aspec and Bspec, Online mode, Remote racing via your computer, Special challenges and the increasing number of Seasonal events the end is not near. This game is HUGE. Then again, it is on a Blue Ray.

Forza is massive as well. I've been playing F3 for years and still haven't managed to complete all of the career races (And I've only ever once gone online, so don't think I've used my time up doing that)

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

So, you going on record to say that Forza 4 is a complete evolution from Forza 3 and they are not similar in any way? The difference between GT4 and GT5 is an evolutionary gap imo. Is it the same with F3 and F4? Or did they just add into F4 to make it better than F3. Like there isn't a gap in Modern Warfare 3 and Black Ops, just better content.

It's not a complete evolution, it never will be - they're both on the same generation of console. I would consider F4 a complete evolution of F2, but that's only if you ignore F3 as also being an evolution of F2.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

I've always thought F4 was better than anything NFS related for sure.

Then please stop comparing Forza to anything NFS-related. They are not similar in the slightest.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Game reviews have said the driving physics were "Forza". Which to me translates into some floating driving since Forza 3 was that way.

It's much better than F3. They do still feel "Forza" but that doesn't mean it drives exactly the same as F3. Hell, GT4 (like the 3 previous GT's) felt like the cars were driving on glass IMO, but just because they all have a similar feel, doesn't mean they all drive the same. Polyphony improved with every game they made.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

No but it's not completed in a weekend either or even a month.

Neither is Forza. F4's career looked just as big as F3's (which I've already mentioned I haven't even completed yet), and that's not including any of the online modes, time trials, etc. They are both huge games.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Sorry, but no version of Forza has even come close to outselling GT EVER. Kinda hard to be voted #1 when you get outsold by millions of copies.

Who cares how many they sell? That's like saying the Corolla is the best car in the world just because it sells the most, some pretty flawed logic...

Lets see some game critic scores... (Out of 10)

Gamespot:
Gamespot Score/Critic Score/User Score
F3: 9.5/9.2/9.0
F4: 8.5/9.1/8.9 (Probably because it wasn't as much of a jump from F2)
GT5: 8.0/8.4/8.6

IGN:
IGN Score/Critic Score/User Score
F3: 9.4/8.7/8.5
F4: 9.5/9.1/N/A
GT5: 8.5/8.2/8.4

Noticing a pattern there?

[Dragonitti]

So, of course we all have our opinions and like and dislikes. But numbers are a different thing. I figured I would bring in a few metrics to the equation.

For starters I thought it was rather funny looking up GT4 (not 5) on Wikipedia and then looking up Forza3 on Wikipedia and seeing how the first couple of define them.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Gran Turismo 4 (グランツーリスモ4 Guran Tsūrisumo Fō?, commonly abbreviated GT4) is a racing simulator for the Sony PlayStation 2 which was developed by Polyphony Digital.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Forza Motorsport 3 is a racing video game developed for Xbox 360 by Turn 10 Studios.

Thought that was interesting. Anyhow, moving on to metrics:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

By March 2010, Gran Turismo 4 had shipped 1.27 million copies in Japan, 3.05 million in North America, 6.56 million in Europe, and 170,000 in Asia for a total of 11.06 million copies.[1] It is the second highest-selling game in the Gran Turismo franchise ahead of Gran Turismo but behind Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec respectively.

Upon searching for Forza3 sales figures, I found this article.

Link
http://www.next-gen.biz/news/forza-3...pass-2-million

Originally Posted by Next-Gen

“After speeding past the finish line last October, Forza Motorsport 3 is now in the hands of more than 2 million passionate car lovers around the world,” said the developer (via GT Planet). “To give fans even more reasons to keep behind the wheel with the game, Turn 10 today releases two brand new tracks in the downloadable Nürburgring Grand Prix Circuit Track Pack.”

Microsoft reported in December that Forza Motorsport 3 had sold one million copies in its first month of release.

The Nürburgring Grand Prix Circuit Track Pack DLC is now available on Xbox Live Marketplace for 400 Microsoft Points. According to the studio it’s been meticulously re-created to reflect the legacy and excitement of the German grand prix circuit.

The track pack includes two layouts of the circuit; the full 3.22-mile circuit with the Schumacher S corners, and the short 2.24-mile sprint circuit.

It was reported yesterday that lifetime sales of Sony’s rival racing series, Gran Turismo, had reached 55 million worldwide

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Snaps

Lets see some game critic scores... (Out of 10)

Gamespot:
Gamespot Score/Critic Score/User Score
F3: 9.5/9.2/9.0
F4: 8.5/9.1/8.9 (Probably because it wasn't as much of a jump from F2)
GT5: 8.0/8.4/8.6

IGN:
IGN Score/Critic Score/User Score
F3: 9.4/8.7/8.5
F4: 9.5/9.1/N/A
GT5: 8.5/8.2/8.4

Noticing a pattern there?

Gamespot and IGN love Forza. Wonder what the reviews were from the Golden Joystick awards for Forza 3 or F4 for GT5 to beat them. And don't say F4 hasn't been out long enough to get reviewed for the award. To say GT5 is inconsistent upon release, and still manage to get Best Racing game award is kinda funny don't you think. They won with an incomplete game (in some peoples eyes).

And sales figures does matter. If a Corolla was crappy people wouldn't buy it, or continue to purchase the brand.



I thought it was cool what Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear had to say about GT4.

I called Sony and asked it to send me a game chip already loaded with the 700 computer cars. And I am in a position to test out its claims because, unlike most people, I really have driven almost all of them in real life.
There are mistakes. The BMW M3 CSL, for instance, brakes much better on the road than it does on the screen. And there's no way a Peugeot 106 could outdrag a Fiat Punto off the line. But other than this, I’m struggling: they’ve even managed to accurately reflect the differences between a Mercedes SL 600 and the Mercedes SL 55, which is hard enough to do in real life.
There's more, too. If you take a banked curve in the Bentley Le Mans car flat out, you’ll be fine. If you back off, even a little bit, you lose the aerodynamic grip and end up spinning.
That's how it is. This game would only be more real if a big spike shot out of the screen and skewered your head every time you crashed. In fact that's the only real drawback: that you can hit the barriers hard without ever damaging you or your car. Maybe they’re saving that for GT5. Perhaps it’ll be called Death or Glory.[23]

Still looking for his review of Forza 4 since he's voiced for it in the game.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by dalli

dirt 3 is very fun, i played it with the g27 wheel.

I got bored of Dirt 3 pretty quick. After the trailers I thought it was going to be more realistic than the past games, but it still had the same arcade feel it always had. Someone really needs to make a good rally sim.

Forza 4 is a good game but I wouldn't buy an xbox specifically for it. Same goes for GT5. I'd rather spend my money on things that actually exist.

[Snaps]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

For starters I thought it was rather funny looking up GT4 (not 5) on Wikipedia and then looking up Forza3 on Wikipedia and seeing how the first couple of define them.

Don't kid yourself. Both GT5 and Forza are VIDEO GAMES, they are both played on VIDEO GAME CONSOLES, with GAME CONTROLLERS. Neither are simulators.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Upon searching for Forza3 sales figures, I found this article.

Link

Once again, the only people that care how much they sell are the game makers themselves. The amount they sell does not determine the quality of the game.

Let me give another example - the last couple of CoD games that have came out... They're all terrible, they're all gimmickey, repetitive peices of c**p that are just another copy of the previous game. These games still sell millions upon millions of copies to the sheepish fans that don't know what better to do with thier money. I'm not saying GT5 follows this mould, I'm just saying that the amount of copies a game sells does not determine the quality of it. Sure, if it sells more, it's more likely to be better quality, but doesn't guarantee it.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Gamespot and IGN love Forza. Wonder what the reviews were from the Golden Joystick awards for Forza 3 or F4 for GT5 to beat them. And don't say F4 hasn't been out long enough to get reviewed for the award. To say GT5 is inconsistent upon release, and still manage to get Best Racing game award is kinda funny don't you think. They won with an incomplete game (in some peoples eyes).

Seriously? "Gamespot and IGN love Forza"? I'm sure over the thousands of people that voted on those games there isn't going to be that much bias. If you truly believe that, then ignore the IGN and Gamespot scores, but that doesn't mean you can ignore the critics and user scores, of which there were more than enough people to rule out any bias.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

And sales figures does matter. If a Corolla was crappy people wouldn't buy it, or continue to purchase the brand.

Not necesarily true. Most people are blind, if you haven't noticed yet, they'll blndly follow their opinion even if it's shoved in their face that it's a poor one. eg. most American car makers in the 90's had nothing on the japanse manufacturers, yet stupid people still purchased the sub-par product....

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

I thought it was cool what Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear had to say about GT4.

AFAIK Jeremy Clarkson isn't a gamer.... Also, chances are he wasn't playing with a good wheel either...

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Snaps

Don't kid yourself. Both GT5 and Forza are VIDEO GAMES, they are both played on VIDEO GAME CONSOLES, with GAME CONTROLLERS. Neither are simulators.

Tell the rest of the free world that.

Originally Posted by Snaps

Once again, the only people that care how much they sell are the game makers themselves. The amount they sell does not determine the quality of the game.

Let me give another example - the last couple of CoD games that have came out... They're all terrible, they're all gimmickey, repetitive peices of c**p that are just another copy of the previous game. These games still sell millions upon millions of copies to the sheepish fans that don't know what better to do with thier money. I'm not saying GT5 follows this mould, I'm just saying that the amount of copies a game sells does not determine the quality of it. Sure, if it sells more, it's more likely to be better quality, but doesn't guarantee it.

In this case GT5 is of great quality and it sells like Hot Cakes because of it.

Originally Posted by Snaps

Seriously? "Gamespot and IGN love Forza"? I'm sure over the thousands of people that voted on those games there isn't going to be that much bias. If you truly believe that, then ignore the IGN and Gamespot scores, but that doesn't mean you can ignore the critics and user scores, of which there were more than enough people to rule out any bias.

After following InsideSimRacing, I value what their opinions are WAY more than Gamespot or IGN. They tested GT5 for less then a week at most and then rated it. InsideSimRacing guys put in Months before they give a score for a title. And all they do is score racing games and nothing else.

Originally Posted by Snaps

Not necesarily true. Most people are blind, if you haven't noticed yet, they'll blndly follow their opinion even if it's shoved in their face that it's a poor one. eg. most American car makers in the 90's had nothing on the japanse manufacturers, yet stupid people still purchased the sub-par product....

Not buying it, sorry.

Originally Posted by Snaps

AFAIK Jeremy Clarkson isn't a gamer.... Also, chances are he wasn't playing with a good wheel either...

Do you have to be a movie director to know a shitty movie or appreciate a good movie when you see one? As much as I like Top Gear USA over BBK, I still respect Clarkson's experience in testing cars.