Not a BRZ. - Page 3 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

imped4now · 09-18-2019, 10:36 AM

I actually just made the same move, and even spoke to the OP on the Miata forum prior to doing so. 2017 BRZ PP to 2019 RF Club w/ BBS/Brembo and Recaros. My thoughts:

Agiity - The ND is the smaller, lighter car. But it's not like the BRZ is a porker that can't turn. We're splitting hairs.

Fuel Consumption - Miata is around 15-20% more efficient. I still consider the BRZ to be quite efficient.

Noise - Miata is a bit louder.

Handling - The BRZ is the overall winner. Flatter cornering, better on-center steering feel, and less jittery. The BRZ has one of the more impressive chassis I've experienced and it's top-shelf from the steering and brakes to cornering abilities. The Miata needs springs and sway bars at a minimum to match the BRZ's capabilities.

Acceleration - Miata has a midrange. It feels faster.

Engine Harshness - No major observations.

Seat comfort - My thoughts on the BRZ's seats are similar to the OP's. They are *perfect*, even for my larger (6'2" 210 lb) frame. Great lumbar support, great driving position, great comfort even on longer drives. The ND Recaros are good, maybe an 8 while the BRZ seats are a 9. I need to lower my Miata seats 1" in order to be able to sit in the car properly. At that point, I think they'll be tied.

Outward visibility - RF has the driver side blindspot. No other major notes.

Headlight brightness - I have yet to drive the Miata at night, but the LED BRZ headlights are absolutely top-shelf. Probably the best I've ever used.

Steering (turn-in, under-steer, over-steer) - The BRZ is the winner here, period. Steering effort and feel is superb, as is the on-center feel and return to center. The Miata isn't quite there but I do believe stiffer sway bars will really make a difference. I also hate the Miata steering wheel, which is at the top of my list.

High speed stability (against cross-wind) - The BRZ is the more planted car at highway speeds and there's really no question. The Miata isn't bad at all (I drove it home 500 miles at 80-85mph) but it does require more focus.

Shifter - my BRZ had the STI short shifter, shift lever/support bushings and trans mount spacer. It was absolutely superb in all areas. I preferred it to everything I've ever driven, including an S2000 (of which I spent several hours driving) and the ND. The ND shifter is very good but it doesn't have the weight, feel or precision of the BRZ's shifter. It's lighter sprung and requires less effort. I'll work on that.

Brakes - The BRZ PP is a braking beast - awesome feel, modulation and bite. The ND Brembos don't feel as good, so I plan on new pads and fluid to start. The BRZ feels premium in this area.

To get the ND to the BRZ's level of crispness, feel and handling, it needs a different steering wheel, pads, stiffer sway bars, and probably springs. However, it has a couple things the BRZ can't have - open air, a major diet and looks to die for. I hope this helps people that are in the same boat. I still believe you'll be hard-pressed to find a better driver's car for $20k than a 17+ BRZ PP.

Decep · 09-18-2019, 11:39 PM

My mom's ND is a blast to drive, the engine is definitely a generation ahead of the FA20 in terms of power delivery and smoothness. The transmission is butter smooth. The ride is marshmallow soft.

It's too damn small, trunk is a joke. Passenger seat is a joke with that transmission tunnel. Legroom is tough and im not super tall or anything, 32" inseam. Big size 14 feet though so i feel clumsy driving it and have to be careful which pedal im pressing. Lovely toy but for me that's what it is. Do i take it out every chance i get? Of course

~el~jefe~ · 09-19-2019, 04:25 AM

There is no way without smoking a lot of bad NJ newark crack that you could find the BRZ shifter to be better than the mx-5.

The handling is crisper on the BRZ. Absolutely. The MX-5 Handles better. It just feels bizarre. The BRZ handles in a more enjoyable way. The MX-5 can take turns at insane speeds. It just feels like youre going to die, but never do.

Also, the electronic stability control on the MX-5 does not need to be turned off when you drive it very hard. It is similar to Track mode on the BRZ, but you dont have to hit the button.

Overall the BRZ is more pleasant to drive. It is. I wont deny that. Unless you want to go absolutely nuts and just robbed a bank. Then you need an MX-5 and ignore the bizarre sensations. You will outrun most things on the road, quite high end things 3x more in price.

imped4now · 09-19-2019, 09:29 AM

I had the factory STI short shifter, along with the shift lever bushing and trans mount spacer. I prefer a higher effort, notchy shift feel and the BRZ is perfection. The Miata shifter has a little radial play that I'd like to take out, and the effort is pretty low. It all depends on preference, but at this point the BRZ is really the better car from the input side of things (brakes, shifter, steering). I'll get the Miata where I want it to be, it'll just take some work.

Chikna · 09-20-2019, 04:19 PM

I bought 2018 BRZ tS (205hp) for $30K, where will I get Miata RF Club (180hp) for $30K?

norcalpb · 09-20-2019, 05:01 PM

You guys should share with the class the process of replacing the front sway bar on an ND Miata.

Teaser: the quickest way to remove it is to cut the stock bar in half.

~el~jefe~ · 09-23-2019, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chikna

I bought 2018 BRZ tS (205hp) for $30K, where will I get Miata RF Club (180hp) for $30K?

you do realize that the Miata RF Club accelerates much faster, yes? Why do people quote hp. My car weighs 2430 lbs and has a flat torque curve.

I believe that people should have both a BRZ and a RF Club, or BRZ and a soft top Miata Club or grand touring (Leather and some fluff).

86MLR · 09-24-2019, 04:31 AM

An RF will be on my short list in a couple of years.

~el~jefe~ · 09-24-2019, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86MLR

An RF will be on my short list in a couple of years.

It really is the car to get. I can't think of any cars I want to collect aside from:

New BRZ
New Supra

New RF Club (or GT with the Club suspension upgrade)

That's about it.

Tcoat · 09-24-2019, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~

It really is the car to get. I can't think of any cars I want to collect aside from:

New BRZ
New Supra

New RF Club (or GT with the Club suspension upgrade)

That's about it.

Until you are bored with it in a year or so and then something else will be the one to get.

~el~jefe~ · 09-24-2019, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Until you are bored with it in a year or so and then something else will be the one to get.

Like a cat who can't decide to be in or out of the room/ door open or close.

86MLR · 09-24-2019, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Until you are bored with it in a year or so and then something else will be the one to get.

LOL, this is me

3 to 5 years then it's out the door to be replaced with my next toy car

09-24-2019, 04:31 AM	#36
86MLR Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Drives: 2002 VX Commodore SS LS1 Auto Location: Sydney Posts: 2,203 Thanks: 500 Thanked 2,185 Times in 1,111 Posts Mentioned: 13 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	An RF will be on my short list in a couple of years. __________________ Disclaimer: This post represents the official views of the voices in my head at the time of posting. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133311 I'm only here for the biscuits

09-18-2019, 10:36 AM	#29
imped4now Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Drives: '17 BRZ PP - '17 FoRS Location: Indianapolis Posts: 56 Thanks: 0 Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I actually just made the same move, and even spoke to the OP on the Miata forum prior to doing so. 2017 BRZ PP to 2019 RF Club w/ BBS/Brembo and Recaros. My thoughts: Agiity - The ND is the smaller, lighter car. But it's not like the BRZ is a porker that can't turn. We're splitting hairs. Fuel Consumption - Miata is around 15-20% more efficient. I still consider the BRZ to be quite efficient. Noise - Miata is a bit louder. Handling - The BRZ is the overall winner. Flatter cornering, better on-center steering feel, and less jittery. The BRZ has one of the more impressive chassis I've experienced and it's top-shelf from the steering and brakes to cornering abilities. The Miata needs springs and sway bars at a minimum to match the BRZ's capabilities. Acceleration - Miata has a midrange. It feels faster. Engine Harshness - No major observations. Seat comfort - My thoughts on the BRZ's seats are similar to the OP's. They are perfect, even for my larger (6'2" 210 lb) frame. Great lumbar support, great driving position, great comfort even on longer drives. The ND Recaros are good, maybe an 8 while the BRZ seats are a 9. I need to lower my Miata seats 1" in order to be able to sit in the car properly. At that point, I think they'll be tied. Outward visibility - RF has the driver side blindspot. No other major notes. Headlight brightness - I have yet to drive the Miata at night, but the LED BRZ headlights are absolutely top-shelf. Probably the best I've ever used. Steering (turn-in, under-steer, over-steer) - The BRZ is the winner here, period. Steering effort and feel is superb, as is the on-center feel and return to center. The Miata isn't quite there but I do believe stiffer sway bars will really make a difference. I also hate the Miata steering wheel, which is at the top of my list. High speed stability (against cross-wind) - The BRZ is the more planted car at highway speeds and there's really no question. The Miata isn't bad at all (I drove it home 500 miles at 80-85mph) but it does require more focus. Shifter - my BRZ had the STI short shifter, shift lever/support bushings and trans mount spacer. It was absolutely superb in all areas. I preferred it to everything I've ever driven, including an S2000 (of which I spent several hours driving) and the ND. The ND shifter is very good but it doesn't have the weight, feel or precision of the BRZ's shifter. It's lighter sprung and requires less effort. I'll work on that. Brakes - The BRZ PP is a braking beast - awesome feel, modulation and bite. The ND Brembos don't feel as good, so I plan on new pads and fluid to start. The BRZ feels premium in this area. To get the ND to the BRZ's level of crispness, feel and handling, it needs a different steering wheel, pads, stiffer sway bars, and probably springs. However, it has a couple things the BRZ can't have - open air, a major diet and looks to die for. I hope this helps people that are in the same boat. I still believe you'll be hard-pressed to find a better driver's car for $20k than a 17+ BRZ PP.

09-18-2019, 11:39 PM	#30
Decep Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Drives: 2013 FR-S Series 10 Location: CA Posts: 1,073 Thanks: 172 Thanked 497 Times in 326 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	My mom's ND is a blast to drive, the engine is definitely a generation ahead of the FA20 in terms of power delivery and smoothness. The transmission is butter smooth. The ride is marshmallow soft. It's too damn small, trunk is a joke. Passenger seat is a joke with that transmission tunnel. Legroom is tough and im not super tall or anything, 32" inseam. Big size 14 feet though so i feel clumsy driving it and have to be careful which pedal im pressing. Lovely toy but for me that's what it is. Do i take it out every chance i get? Of course

09-19-2019, 04:25 AM	#31
~el~jefe~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2016 Drives: 2019 MX-5 RF Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 601 Thanks: 829 Thanked 241 Times in 153 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	There is no way without smoking a lot of bad NJ newark crack that you could find the BRZ shifter to be better than the mx-5. The handling is crisper on the BRZ. Absolutely. The MX-5 Handles better. It just feels bizarre. The BRZ handles in a more enjoyable way. The MX-5 can take turns at insane speeds. It just feels like youre going to die, but never do. Also, the electronic stability control on the MX-5 does not need to be turned off when you drive it very hard. It is similar to Track mode on the BRZ, but you dont have to hit the button. Overall the BRZ is more pleasant to drive. It is. I wont deny that. Unless you want to go absolutely nuts and just robbed a bank. Then you need an MX-5 and ignore the bizarre sensations. You will outrun most things on the road, quite high end things 3x more in price.

09-19-2019, 09:29 AM	#32
imped4now Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Drives: '17 BRZ PP - '17 FoRS Location: Indianapolis Posts: 56 Thanks: 0 Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I had the factory STI short shifter, along with the shift lever bushing and trans mount spacer. I prefer a higher effort, notchy shift feel and the BRZ is perfection. The Miata shifter has a little radial play that I'd like to take out, and the effort is pretty low. It all depends on preference, but at this point the BRZ is really the better car from the input side of things (brakes, shifter, steering). I'll get the Miata where I want it to be, it'll just take some work.

09-20-2019, 04:19 PM	#33
Chikna Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Drives: 2018 BRZ TS 244/500 Location: Houston Posts: 194 Thanks: 8 Thanked 43 Times in 33 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I bought 2018 BRZ tS (205hp) for $30K, where will I get Miata RF Club (180hp) for $30K?

09-20-2019, 05:01 PM	#34
norcalpb Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Drives: 2013 BRZ, 2023 Model 3 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 2,345 Thanks: 1,256 Thanked 902 Times in 590 Posts Mentioned: 15 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	You guys should share with the class the process of replacing the front sway bar on an ND Miata. Teaser: the quickest way to remove it is to cut the stock bar in half.

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