Gravel Roads

[pinski]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I tend to forget that not everybody gets the stock mud guards like Canada does. I totally agree, anybody that hits a gravel road on a regular basis should invest in them. They make a huge difference.

As soon as I ordered wider wheels, this was my first mod. They look very subtle, but do a great job of keeping stone chips off the car.

[Psilox]

I ended up getting Rally Armor flaps for just such occasions (gravel driveways very often) and let me tell you, in addition to looking cool they definitely save a lot of war and tear on the paint. I would say undercarriage wise you're just fine.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by WRBrzRX

google any of the development videos from 2 years before the cars came out to see the grey Legacy that was the first mule

stop already with the horrendous misinformation

And you never wondered why they call them mules?

You may underestimate how closely the Legacy platform resembles that of the Impreza. I'm pretty sure if you look under a 2012 Legacy and a 2012 Impreza the latter will look just like the underside of the BRZ but the former will not.

Subaru keeps referring to the Impreza when trying to emphasize how "all new" the BRZ platform was supposed to be. Including in the video you are presumably referring to.

I suggest you post the links or just drift off the topic politely.

[WRBrzRX]

literally nothing to do with the impreza at any point in its development so stop with that too

the Legacy mule got both teams excited enough to commit, if that has you questioning the definition of mule... ok?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=BRZ+development+video

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by WRBrzRX

literally nothing to do with the impreza at any point in its development so stop with that too

the Legacy mule got both teams excited enough to commit, if that has you questioning the definition of mule... ok?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=BRZ+development+video

The suspension and the rear subframe for the BRZ and the Impreza are practically identical (the rear anti roll bar from any Impreza based model bolts right in, just for example), front hubs even have the hole in them for the awd axle fitted to an Impreza. Subaru themselves refer to the Impreza several times in that video, assuming it's the two part video I watched.

You will not find any source to support the claim that the BRZ is based on the legacy platform. The 2012 Impreza was "all new" and developed at the same time as the BRZ. Wheelbase is very similar. Engine is basically identical in size and shape, the FA20 being a development of the FB20, etc etc. Subaru even had to modify the transmission tunnel and move the starter (or something similar) from one side of this brand new engine to the other side in order to move the engine back a little. Had they designed the platform from scratch they would not have had to do that.

Legacy we got at the time 2009-2012 was a different car built only in the USA.

You probably don't realize that the Forester is just an oversized Impreza.

There is just no possibility that a tiny car company like Subaru would design an entirely new platform just to build the BRZ, none whatsoever.

[WRBrzRX]

hah I rallycross a 13 impreza and can tell you the rear sway bars are the only swappable part, a function of standard ~70" body width. Stop saying the subframes are practically identical. They share the same GENERAL SHAPE that Subaru has used for years but don't read that much into it

must be a different development video because every one of them shows the Legacy mule that was the very first, followed by the naked black mule which was still Legacy! Then the camo BRZ on the all new platform. No Impreza at any point. Zero reference to Imprezas at any point.

again with the unrelated crap when you're wrong, it's not the time to bring up the Forester of all things

you keep asking for further proof, links and support for something widely known, all while ignoring the fact that you can't do that in the slightest.

the BRZ is an all new platform, again stop making up nonsense

[WRBrzRX]

Originally Posted by Gforce

The suspension and the rear subframe for the BRZ and the Impreza are practically identical (the rear anti roll bar from any Impreza based model bolts right in, just for example), front hubs even have the hole in them for the awd axle fitted to an Impreza. Subaru themselves refer to the Impreza several times in that video, assuming it's the two part video I watched.

You will not find any source to support the claim that the BRZ is based on the legacy platform. The 2012 Impreza was "all new" and developed at the same time as the BRZ. Wheelbase is very similar. Engine is basically identical in size and shape, the FA20 being a development of the FB20, etc etc. Subaru even had to modify the transmission tunnel and move the starter (or something similar) from one side of this brand new engine to the other side in order to move the engine back a little. Had they designed the platform from scratch they would not have had to do that.

Legacy we got at the time 2009-2012 was a different car built only in the USA.

You probably don't realize that the Forester is just an oversized Impreza.

There is just no possibility that a tiny car company like Subaru would design an entirely new platform just to build the BRZ, none whatsoever.

instead of getting immediately defensive and moving the goalposts, read this slowly. I'm going to be nice and type it all out for you:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS1ApdsAs-U"]Subaru BRZ: Engineer's Story (Full) | Subaru Australia - YouTube[/ame]

2 minutes in. Hiroshi Watahiki. Engineering Division. Says QUOTE:

"We overhauled every aspect of the car in what was the first time we had undertaken such a challenge of this scale in 20 years since the 1st generation Legacy. We have completely redesigned the engine, transmission, platform and upper body– in fact, every aspect of the car."

UNQUOTE.

2:40 : Newly Developed Platform. Keep watching if you'd like?

This was the content that we all gobbled up waiting for the car to come out 6 years ago. Many of us know it inside and out along with all of the other development and teaser videos. This one's called Engineer's Story and is the second best.

Stop inventing stuff.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gforce

The suspension and the rear subframe for the BRZ and the Impreza are practically identical (the rear anti roll bar from any Impreza based model bolts right in, just for example), front hubs even have the hole in them for the awd axle fitted to an Impreza. Subaru themselves refer to the Impreza several times in that video, assuming it's the two part video I watched.

You will not find any source to support the claim that the BRZ is based on the legacy platform. The 2012 Impreza was "all new" and developed at the same time as the BRZ. Wheelbase is very similar. Engine is basically identical in size and shape, the FA20 being a development of the FB20, etc etc. Subaru even had to modify the transmission tunnel and move the starter (or something similar) from one side of this brand new engine to the other side in order to move the engine back a little. Had they designed the platform from scratch they would not have had to do that.

Legacy we got at the time 2009-2012 was a different car built only in the USA.

You probably don't realize that the Forester is just an oversized Impreza.

There is just no possibility that a tiny car company like Subaru would design an entirely new platform just to build the BRZ, none whatsoever.

Nobody said it was "based on" the Legacy we said it was the mule to demonstrate proof of concept.
Parts bin parts are used all the time and do not indicate common design in any way. To use your own standard response If you knew anything about parts manufacturing you would know this.
They didn't need to modify the tunnel nor move the starter to make things fit. The design accounted for these in the new platform. Where the hell did you even come up with that malarkey?
Subaru doesn't design new platforms for one model? Everything they have ever made is built on their very first design? Jesus dude you have not one single clue about such things do you?

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Gforce

There is just no possibility that a tiny car company like Subaru would design an entirely new platform just to build the BRZ, none whatsoever.

However, there's a very real possibility that a large car company such as Toyota would in fact design an entirely new platform and then reach out to a small car company it partially owns to share design ideas and technology, especially when the small car company has an extensive racing background of its own. They might even conduct a joint venture with said small car company and allow models to be produced under both brands.

A large car company such as Toyota might even reach out to a completely unrelated car company to design and build an entirely new platform just to create a halo car. Which is why the FT-1 will have a BMW engine and why the BMW Z5 will be built on an FT-1 chassis.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

However, there's a very real possibility that a large car company such as Toyota would in fact design an entirely new platform and then reach out to a small car company it partially owns to share design ideas and technology, especially when the small car company has an extensive racing background of its own. They might even conduct a joint venture with said small car company and allow models to be produced under both brands.

A large car company such as Toyota might even reach out to a completely unrelated car company to design and build an entirely new platform just to create a halo car. Which is why the FT-1 will have a BMW engine and why the BMW Z5 will be built on an FT-1 chassis.

Impossible! Besides Mr. Gfarce has already clearly stated that the Toyota guys screwed up the suspension and it was the saving grace of the BRZ design team that has brought it back to reality. How dare you insinuate that the car was anything but a modified Impreza.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Mr. Gfarce has already clearly stated...

Yeah, that's how I know he's wrong. Any company that has competed in as many racing series as Toyota has knows how to design suspension. Especially when some of those racing series are F1, WRC, the Endurance Championship, and Baja 1000/SCORE. That's a huge and varied wealth of knowledge and experience.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

However, there's a very real possibility that a large car company such as Toyota would in fact design an entirely new platform and then reach out to a small car company it partially owns to share design ideas and technology, especially when the small car company has an extensive racing background of its own. They might even conduct a joint venture with said small car company and allow models to be produced under both brands.

A large car company such as Toyota might even reach out to a completely unrelated car company to design and build an entirely new platform just to create a halo car. Which is why the FT-1 will have a BMW engine and why the BMW Z5 will be built on an FT-1 chassis.

Except that Toyota didn't design the BRZ. And Toyota bought into Subaru well before the BRZ was announced, so not a totally unrelated company. As for the BMW connection with Toyota well, we should wait and see what that unlikely joint venture produces before we get too carried away. Toyota needs no help from BMW in the powerplant department.

The current Impreza and BRZ were developed at the same time and from a substantially modified Legacy platform. The rear suspension and subframe are essentially identical between the two and of different origin to that of the Legacy which continues with its own subframe and suspension until next year when Subaru will be building all of its cars on a new multi car platform. That's when we'll find out what the new BRZ will look like, if there is one.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Impossible! Besides Mr. Gfarce has already clearly stated that the Toyota guys screwed up the suspension and it was the saving grace of the BRZ design team that has brought it back to reality. How dare you insinuate that the car was anything but a modified Impreza.

Toyota had no input whatsoever into the design of the BRZ/FRS/GT86 except the spring rates. Which Toyota got wrong, as it happens. Since the FRS spring rates were changed for the following model year that is indisputable.

As for Subaru getting the suspension wrong in the first place they admitted the same by substantially revising and improving the suspension for 2017.

Anybody who has reviewed the 2017 confirms this substantial improvement. The changes I was able to make to my BRZ, most recently fitting 2017 rear springs, also confirms that the original set up was incorrect. I figured out what was wrong in 2013.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Yeah, that's how I know he's wrong. Any company that has competed in as many racing series as Toyota has knows how to design suspension. Especially when some of those racing series are F1, WRC, the Endurance Championship, and Baja 1000/SCORE. That's a huge and varied wealth of knowledge and experience.

I think you'll find little Subaru blew the doors of giant Toyota when they competed head to head. Toyota wisely left the design of the BRZ/FRS/GT86 to Subaru, including the suspension. Toyota insisted on using the wrong rear spring rates for both the FRS and gt86 versions. Toyota didn't fix the GT86 rear springs until 2017 but they changed them for the FRS within one model year from the initial release.