Rough and gravel road suspension setup

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gforce

A car that steers from the front axle must understeer to initiate any turn. After that, whether it continues to do so or not depends on a number of factors. Every road car I've ever driven, including Porsche 911, understeer.

Traction control is to prevent wheelspin. It has nothing to do with keeping the car straight.

Stability control is intended to keep the car straight.

Neither one improves tire grip.

ABS has nothing to do with keeping the car straight either although it makes it very easy for the driver to do. EBD is intended to keep the car straight under braking. All modern ABS also has EBD. Older versions of ABS did not.

VSC is the same as stability control but the control parameters are extendeded to allow a little instability before stepping in.

Subaru's traction control and stability control systems are not very good. They step in far too early. 2017 versions are much improved.

Driving the BRZ as I would any other car results in the traction and stability control intervening. That's how I know they aren't very good.

With both switched off it is ridiculously easy to step the tail out on these cars, again comparing the BRZ to every other car I've ever driven, including some with 600+ horsepower.

You keep saying how much better the 2017s are at everything yet you also say you have never driven one. How do you know they are so much better?


Were all the cars you have driven set up exactly the same as the BRZ? If not then you can not say the nannies are good nor bad based upon a comparison between different vehicles.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You keep saying how much better the 2017s are at everything yet you also say you have never driven one. How do you know they are so much better?


Were all the cars you have driven set up exactly the same as the BRZ? If not then you can not say the nannies are good nor bad based upon a comparison between different vehicles.

I rarely get the nannies to kick in while driving around. Only time it happens is in the winter and when driving in sub 20*C, wet weather with my summer tires (thanks 200TW). I must be doing it entirely wrong.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Cole

I rarely get the nannies to kick in while driving around. Only time it happens is in the winter and when driving in sub 20*C, wet weather with my summer tires (thanks 200TW). I must be doing it entirely wrong.

Well that is what you get for driving this car in the winter since we all know that "real" drivers all say it is impossible to do.

[D_Thissen]

My head hurts.

[DAEMANO]

Since the OP was banned, but I found this question interesting, postin anyhow. There's been quite a bit of development work to prep these cars for off road fun. From the videos below I search for the owner and race team names and you'll eventually find specs from Street to Rallycross to Rally.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrou6X0p_Qs"]Will Orders at the 2013 Nameless Rally in the Nameless Performance GT-86. - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyjXlt--JhQ"]FR-S Rallycross run 4 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YvuHbf0cIk"]Targa Newfoundland in a Scion FR-S - Living The Dream - YouTube[/ame]



I was pretty quickly able to find a company called Flatout Suspension that has a coilover set @$1800 for this purpose. I'm sure they'd be willing to give you wheel, tire and suspension specs & assistance if you end up going that direction.

https://www.flatoutsuspension.com/pr...ant=3846737796

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You keep saying how much better the 2017s are at everything yet you also say you have never driven one. How do you know they are so much better?


Were all the cars you have driven set up exactly the same as the BRZ? If not then you can not say the nannies are good nor bad based upon a comparison between different vehicles.

The journalists who have driven them all say the same thing. Besides, in effect, I do drive a 2017 and it's much better than it was.

I can and do assert that the original traction and stability control fitted to my BRZ are pretty bad. They are obviously intended for unskilled drivers. If you push the chassis at all hard you will experience the stability control taking over.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Cole

I rarely get the nannies to kick in while driving around. Only time it happens is in the winter and when driving in sub 20*C, wet weather with my summer tires (thanks 200TW). I must be doing it entirely wrong.

Not wrong exactly but you did waste your money.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gforce

The journalists who have driven them all say the same thing. Besides, in effect, I do drive a 2017 and it's much better than it was.

I can and do assert that the original traction and stability control fitted to my BRZ are pretty bad. They are obviously intended for unskilled drivers. If you push the chassis at all hard you will experience the stability control taking over.

Ah so just parroting others and stating as if first hand knowledge then.
"Better" for your likes maybe, that does not make it "better" overall. You changed the suspension to suit you and that is fine but it does not mean the old one is not preferred by other people.
The traction and stability controls are all made for unskilled rivers or even skilled drivers driving under normal condition. That is why they can be toned down by a simple push of a button or turned right off by the pedal dance. No doubt though if you turned them off and curbed the car you would find some way that it was the chassis' fault not yours.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ah so just parroting others and stating as if first hand knowledge then.
"Better" for your likes maybe, that does not make it "better" overall. You changed the suspension to suit you and that is fine but it does not mean the old one is not preferred by other people.
The traction and stability controls are all made for unskilled rivers or even skilled drivers driving under normal condition. That is why they can be toned down by a simple push of a button or turned right off by the pedal dance. No doubt though if you turned them off and curbed the car you would find some way that it was the chassis' fault not yours.

No, better objectively. By no standard is the earlier car as good as the 2017 version. If anyone actually prefers the older suspension they just don't understand how suspension is supposed to work. I do.

Even Subaru knows they made a mistake with the first version. The FRS was the worst with its harder rear springs, the GT86 was a bit better and the BRZ best but not until 2017 did they fix the serious deficiency in their choice of rear spring rate. I realized this within a few weeks of buying mine. It took nearly four years for anyone to build the correct rate rear springs to fix the problem. Most buyers had to resort to lowering springs or fitting stiffer springs front and rear to get the chassis to work properly, both of which solutions were incorrect.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Not wrong exactly but you did waste your money.

LOL. Do explain how I wasted my money. Cant wait to hear what the guy who thinks stock suspension is best has to say.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gforce

No, better objectively. By no standard is the earlier car as good as the 2017 version. If anyone actually prefers the older suspension they just don't understand how suspension is supposed to work. I do.

Even Subaru knows they made a mistake with the first version. The FRS was the worst with its harder rear springs, the GT86 was a bit better and the BRZ best but not until 2017 did they fix the serious deficiency in their choice of rear spring rate. I realized this within a few weeks of buying mine. It took nearly four years for anyone to build the correct rate rear springs to fix the problem. Most buyers had to resort to lowering springs or fitting stiffer springs front and rear to get the chassis to work properly, both of which solutions were incorrect.

Yep. They slowly dumbed down the suspension to hit what the average driver would want no doubt about that. Probably just the beginning of turning the car into a Genesis coupe clone. Many buyers (on here) would change the suspension even if it was the best ever made. The 17s will get changed at the same rate as the prior years will.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Most buyers had to resort to......

I'm suggesting most buyers don't give a damn. That is, they bought the car as is to drive as is.

Originally Posted by Gforce

If anyone actually prefers the older suspension they just don't understand how suspension is supposed to work.

Do people have to recite Pascal's law to use the brakes?
Once again I'm suggesting most people don't know and don't care.
80 percent of BMW 1-Series owners think their car is front-wheel drive

You don't seem to appreciate what "compromise" means.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I'm suggesting most buyers don't give a damn. That is, they bought the car as is to drive as is.


Do people have to recite Pascal's law to use the brakes?
Once again I'm suggesting most people don't know and don't care.
80 percent of BMW 1-Series owners think their car is front-wheel drive

You don't seem to appreciate what "compromise" means.

And yet Subaru now sells a much better car for the same price.

Since sales of these cars have not met expectations to date one wonders how sales would have gone had Subaru (well, given Subaru's penchant for superb engineering and the suspension differences on launch I suspect it was actually Toyota's marketing error) built the correct version from launch.

There was no financial savings potential in issuing the first series of cars with the wrong springs. Now not changing the rear subframe from that used in the Impreza saved a bundle. But turning an awd chassis into a proper handling rwd chassis without changing the rear subframe, that has proved to be impossible. Unsurprisingly when you consider the physics.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep. They slowly dumbed down the suspension to hit what the average driver would want no doubt about that. Probably just the beginning of turning the car into a Genesis coupe clone. Many buyers (on here) would change the suspension even if it was the best ever made. The 17s will get changed at the same rate as the prior years will.

On the contrary, Subaru engineers finally told the Toyota marketing boys to butt right out. Only now is the BRZ suitable for experienced and skilled drivers.

And, no, the buyers of current BRZ would not see any need to change anything about the suspension (or the brakes and wheels if you are smart enough to realize what a bargain the PP is) of the current version. This begs the question of whether Toyota deliberately marketed a car suitable for creating a frenzy of demand in the aftermarket.

You would eventually fit better summer tires. You would be wise to fit MCA traction brackets to cure the remaining rear suspension problem caused by using the Impreza subframe unaltered from its donor car, and you might decide to fit a set of lowering springs if you lived where ground clearance isn't important and you have no appreciation for how a softer ride can actually improve handling I.e. you are too young to really understand how suspension works.

If you were really serious you would ditch the Torsen for a clutch type LSD for reasons that are fairly obvious if you understand the difference.