FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Deslock

The FT is smaller and lighter, and reportedly handles well so I'm expecting it to be at least as good as the Z in that regard.

The 370z isn't as harsh as the 350z was, but it's still stiff. Because of the FT's lower weight, it might be more comfortable. I'm certainly not expecting it to be less comfortable.

Whether or not the Z's engine revs freely has nothing to do with the vehicle's weight.

the miata is smaller and lighter and we know it handles well but it doesnt hndle as well as the 370z. that car has grip for days and we know the frs has junk tires so at least stock i think its safe to say it wont handle as well

[subatoy]

I love these comparo threads on cars that don't exist yet.
who would win between a unicorn and a horse?!

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by fatoni

the miata is smaller and lighter and we know it handles well but it doesnt hndle as well as the 370z. that car has grip for days and we know the frs has junk tires so at least stock i think its safe to say it wont handle as well

The Z has lots of grip, but the MX5 handles better (despite its lack of a fixed roof).

Originally Posted by subatoy

I love these comparo threads on cars that don't exist yet.
who would win between a unicorn and a horse?!

Heh. That's why most of what I wrote started with "it might" or "it ought to".

[crazyyankeefan]

that's a very fair assessment. in general, a vehicle's performance shouldn't be judged by only the weight alone, which apparently some posts in this thread have stated the wrong idea. it's all about the weight/power ratio. simply put, of course a car with a bigger engine is gonna come with heavier weight, but it doesn't mean it can't accelerate as fast as a lighter sports car.

i can actually give a personal experience as an example. i previously drove a Acura RSX which is a much light car than 370Z, which i currently drive. while the RSX made me feel (perceptional) that it accelerates faster, in fact it actually does not. the RSX goes from 0-60 in around 7-8 second (i forgot the real stats), while the Z can get to 60 in 4.5-4.9 sec.

size-wise, FRS is not any smaller than the Z, but it's lighter for sure cuz of engine size. on the appearance, the FRS looks gorgeous for sure. how it handles still remains to be seen.

speaking of engine rev, the lexus claim the engine of LFA revs up too fast which can't be accurately reflected by the traditional analog tachometer, so they had to use the digital one when they made the car

Originally Posted by Deslock

The FT is smaller and lighter, and reportedly handles well so I'm expecting it to be at least as good as the Z in that regard.

The 370z isn't as harsh as the 350z was, but it's still stiff. Because of the FT's lower weight, it might be more comfortable. I'm certainly not expecting it to be less comfortable.

Whether or not the Z's engine revs freely has nothing to do with the vehicle's weight.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Deslock

The Z has lots of grip, but the MX5 handles better (despite its lack of a fixed roof).



Heh. That's why most of what I wrote started with "it might" or "it ought to".

not in an objective capacity. i think the issue is at their limits the miata is probably more neutral but at z corners so much harder that where the miata is looking for something to hold on to the z is barely breaking a sweat.

[blur]

Originally Posted by subatoy

I love these comparo threads on cars that don't exist yet.
who would win between a unicorn and a horse?!

Unicorn, hands down. I mean, it's like bringing a knife to a fist fight lol.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think the issue is at their limits the miata is probably more neutral but at z corners so much harder that where the miata is looking for something to hold on to the z is barely breaking a sweat.

I think we're mincing words. To me, what you wrote has more to do with the the Z's tremendous grip.

But to be fair, I forgot to list grip as a Z advantage in my original post (no way will the FT have as much). I edited it to fix that.

[Gardus@Supersprint]

From my point of view (mind that I live in Italy so fuel, insurance and taxes are high) the 370Z is on a completely different scale than the FT, both in performance and costs.

We're talking about:
10-11 vs 6-7 km/l
335+ hp vs 200
19" vs 17" tyres

My father has a 350z 280 cv (which by the way is a lot slower than the 370z) and I wouldn't be able to afford it.
The FT will have costs similar to a small hatchback (Cooper S, Clio RS etc) and that's the reason I'm considering buying it!

I drove a 370z with a full exhaust, 365 hp on the dyno (this one

), and my clio would be a fastly reducing spot in the mirror in a drag race...so the same would be true for the FT86.
Compare the other video to this:

Even to the eye the Nissan is so much faster...

[spin9k]

The key to this phantom comparison is if the FT-86 can get around a race circuit or a twistie mountain road without

1. oil temp overheating to 260 deg and beyond
2. brakes fading or outright failing under hard use
3. engine going into limp mode
4. diff overheating

If the stock FT-86 can pass this test, it's the better sports car, regardless of trap speed, cornering g force, or any other metric...as the 370Z is legendary for its weak knees under stress.

EOS

[Gardus@Supersprint]

And it'll be much lighter obviously.
I don't see why the FT-86 shouldn't be able to do that, in the end a similar car like the S2000 can do many laps on the track with just the right brake pads and a considerate driver.
For sheer acceleration and performance on the straight, as well as "driftability" the 370z will be superior.
In italy the zed costs almost 50k euros new, the FT-86 should be less than 30k (I hope at least) so prices are worlds apart.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by spin9k

The key to this phantom comparison is if the FT-86 can get around a race circuit or a twistie mountain road without

1. oil temp overheating to 260 deg and beyond
2. brakes fading or outright failing under hard use
3. engine going into limp mode
4. diff overheating

If the stock FT-86 can pass this test, it's the better sports car, regardless of trap speed, cornering g force, or any other metric...as the 370Z is legendary for its weak knees under stress.

EOS

stop making sound arguments. this is the internet after all.

[Soravia]

370Z is a GT car, so it has power and can do corners occasionally. But in stock form, it won't go pass 6 back-to-back hot laps on a tight Auto-X. The weight of the car is too much for tires and brake pads in stock form. Even upgraded tires and brakes will wear so much you won't get much use out of them. 370Z is best suited for high speed tracks, not multiple tight corners.

FT-86 will benefit greatly from the ~600lb or so weight reduction. The car doesn't have to exercise too much braking for tight corners. Granted, it will be slower when you hit the gas paddle. But this is basically a Miata NC with roof, back seat, extra 200LB and +30 HP. Bump up the Miata NC with roll cage, extra person and a higher RPM or 2 liter SkyActiv G engine, this is what you get.

Genesis coupe 2.0T makes more power than any another NA 2.0L FR coupe. But when a Miata whip a bunch of other cars around Auto-X, you can see that tight corners demand more than just power to weight ratio and firm suspension. If you don't brake or accelerate correctly, the car won't be able to put all the power to the ground. In FR cars, power delivery is important to prevent loss of traction in mid corner. Sudden torque boost during cornering will make the car lose traction during a corner.

As for price, imagine this. A 370Z will cost you $1000+ for a set of decent tires, installed. For FT-86, with 215/16, you're looking at less than $500 installed and they will last longer on spirited driving, due to weight and ability to switch the tires front to back.

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by spin9k

The key to this phantom comparison is if the FT-86 can get around a race circuit or a twistie mountain road without

1. oil temp overheating to 260 deg and beyond
2. brakes fading or outright failing under hard use
3. engine going into limp mode
4. diff overheating

If the stock FT-86 can pass this test, it's the better sports car, regardless of trap speed, cornering g force, or any other metric...as the 370Z is legendary for its weak knees under stress.

EOS

I reported back in post #390 that all 2012 370Z's NOW come standard with an oil cooler at no extra charge.

So #1 and #3 are no longer a problem and have been fixed. 2 and 4 not so much

[Deslock]

spin9k, Soravia, and zigzagz94: thanks for making this thread interesting and useful.