SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[Locust]

Are the RPF1s still the go-to wheel for C-Street or is there a better option out there? Pretend cost +/- about 30% isn't an issue... Anyone have suggestions on this?

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by Biggins

My CS and DS split was just an idea... they have very similar PAX and it's only really going to matter at the National level. I did fine without the TRD stuff locally (and nationally). The Miata is classed in three different street classes, so why can't we put FRS/BRZs in two classes? "Trunk kit" in CS, true stock & BRZ in DS?

See you all in the CS grid this spring!

Splitting them along the TRD parts-or-not line isn't something I'd oppose. For some reason, though, the SEB doesn't seem concerned about the lack of population/selection in DS.

But the twin problem exists with the miatae as well. ES? NA's and NB's of all stripe and flavor (save for the MSM) are there, and not all of them are pointy-end competitive. Booting the MS-R to BS (and ZOK cars) was more of a nod to their relative rarity. which the TRD bits really are not.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by TMF

I really have no problem with the BRZ's running the TRD parts and I'm for a rule change. But I do understand the SAC's perspective, in that they do not want to make a one-off or even a "blanket" exception. There are other cars in similar situations (soltice vs. sky; wrx vs 9-2x aero; etc) but I don't believe they are as mechanically similar as the FRS and BRZ. It would be tough to write the rule properly without creating other loop holes. If you think you can craft the proper rule, draft it and send it to the SAC - but the idea of a "one-off" rule has already been shot down.

In the end, there have been plenty of cars historically that were competitive in their original Street class, only to be buried in a tougher class a year or two down the road. This is essentially what happened to the BRZ owners, and I'm sorry. FRS owners got "lucky" I guess.

So if you own a BRZ and want to be competitive, I think your options are: trade your BRZ for a FRS, make the jump to STX, or get adopted by the elusive "insanely fast driver's planet" and return to earth as an alien.

Winrar, don't forget muscle cars and shared platforms, can I put Corvette suspension on my Caddy in stock class? F150 springs on my Mustang? Use a Trans-am tranny and rear end for my Camaro?

Originally Posted by Locust

Are the RPF1s still the go-to wheel for C-Street or is there a better option out there? Pretend cost +/- about 30% isn't an issue... Anyone have suggestions on this?

Actually quite a few sub 15lb 17x7 options, just ctrl+f "17x7.0" in the wheel directory thread. Was going to mention Wedsports but doesn't look like they make a good 17x7.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7535

I don't think there's anything 'better' than an RPF1, only different and slightly more expensive on the $/weight scale. Or cheaper if you're willing to sacrifice a pound or two.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Actually quite a few sub 15lb 17x7 options, just ctrl+f "17x7.0" in the wheel directory thread. Was going to mention Wedsports but doesn't look like they make a good 17x7.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7535

I don't think there's anything 'better' than an RPF1, only different and slightly more expensive on the $/weight scale. Or cheaper if you're willing to sacrifice a pound or two.

I did try that with that thread but when I see things claiming like 13lbs vs. 20 for OEM and I don't see people using them at autocross I get a little skeptical. Also a lot of the stuff that I would expect to have weights there actually doesn't. I figure the best source of good information on wheels for C-Street is the C-Street thread...

I've seen plenty of RPF1s locally. Just not sure what else is out there. I know the RPF1s are a cheap, reliable option but I wouldn't be averse to paying $100-$200 more a wheel if it's a few pounds lighter.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by Locust

I did try that with that thread but when I see things claiming like 13lbs vs. 20 for OEM and I don't see people using them at autocross I get a little skeptical. Also a lot of the stuff that I would expect to have weights there actually doesn't. I figure the best source of good information on wheels for C-Street is the C-Street thread...

I've seen plenty of RPF1s locally. Just not sure what else is out there. I know the RPF1s are a cheap, reliable option but I wouldn't be averse to paying $100-$200 more a wheel if it's a few pounds lighter.

Tire Rack carries a Kosei 17x7 that is slightly lighter than the RFP1 IIRC. I think it may have been cheaper too.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Locust

I did try that with that thread but when I see things claiming like 13lbs vs. 20 for OEM and I don't see people using them at autocross I get a little skeptical. Also a lot of the stuff that I would expect to have weights there actually doesn't. I figure the best source of good information on wheels for C-Street is the C-Street thread...

I've seen plenty of RPF1s locally. Just not sure what else is out there. I know the RPF1s are a cheap, reliable option but I wouldn't be averse to paying $100-$200 more a wheel if it's a few pounds lighter.

Sorry, thought it was a fair starting point for 17x7's to start carrying out your own research.


I wouldn't blindly take what's posted their without at least one second or third source for weights either.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Sorry, thought it was a fair starting point for 17x7's to start carrying out your own research.


I wouldn't blindly take what's posted their without at least one second or third source for weights either.

Finding weights for wheels is always excessively hard. Never understood why companies can't just post it on their site. I do research them, especially when I get down to a handful of options, but there are a million brands out there so it's tough to narrow it down without some outside help.

Speaking of which... Has anyone seen/tried these? http://www.rayswheels.co.jp/products...=en&wheel=G2PR

The RAYS website says they'd work and my experience with Volks in the Evo world is that they're pretty much the tops you can get.

[simpleisbest]

shameless plug for my set of RPF1s for sale....http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...78&postcount=1

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Winrar, don't forget muscle cars and shared platforms, can I put Corvette suspension on my Caddy in stock class? F150 springs on my Mustang? Use a Trans-am tranny and rear end for my Camaro?

That's not really a good example. There is a difference between "shared platforms" and IDENTICAL vehicles. Especially from 2015 onward, there is no meaningful difference between the BRZ and FR-S from a mechanical standpoint. Unless you want to start classing vehicles based on options like HIDs and seat heaters, lol.

I realize your examples were, perhaps, exaggerated, but I don't think the fact that they were going to consider the FR-S and BRZ the same car would be grounds to argue that the Corvette and the Cadillac are the same as well...

[markw]

The standard part rule evolved from problems with other manufacturers. Stuff like WS6 Brakes on a base Camaro. That's the problem you will be running into by trying to allow the BRZ/FR-S the same parts. It's not the BRZ/FRS it's all the other combinations guys will want to get the exception for.

[DylanFRS]

I am pretty split on the issue. On one side I think it would be great for the BRZ owners to feel like they can compete in CS again. (Even though I am not entirely convinced that they can't)

On the other side, and this has been presented before, a lot of people chose the BRZ due to the performance (perceived or actual) benefit compared to the FR-S. I don't really get how this is different from that.

You are also making quite the exception and where do you draw the line. The line is pretty well defined right now. Once you allow the BRZ to install the TRD springs, can you then also install the OEM BRZ springs on an FR-S?

It is really lame that the FR-S got a slight upgrade that may have allowed it to compete with the RX-8 and the MX-5 and the BRZ didn't, no doubt. In all fairness though, the BRZ is just as competitive with the MX-5 and RX8 as it was last year and people were fine running it then.

[JimR]

The sting is making the financial commitment, then seeing the same exact car get a "something" you can't have.

Very few people here lack a Nationals jacket because they can't do TRD springs. "Wrong" stuff gets driven up the podium all the time. For me, the lowest hanging fruit is always the driver. I just left the ES pool where a '93 MR2 emerged from the crypt and finished second.

It's pretty janky that two cars effectively separated by badges can't have parity. Still, you see the box that it could open. Applied elsewhere, you go further down the path to Street Prepared Lite. People already bitch about the current allowances for sway bars, wheel diameters, pimp shocks, etc.

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by markw

The standard part rule evolved from problems with other manufacturers. Stuff like WS6 Brakes on a base Camaro. That's the problem you will be running into by trying to allow the BRZ/FR-S the same parts. It's not the BRZ/FRS it's all the other combinations guys will want to get the exception for.

If the exception said 'joint-venture cars that share the same chassis/driveline (Engine/Trans)' can you think of an example of how this screws anything up?
I can't think of any advantages that are unlocked with this wording, but maybe I'm missing something.
Saabaru/WRX wagon - I see no advantage/these cars all blew up and went to SM/ST
Solstice/Sky - ZOK suspension BS Saturn Sky? Who cares, do it.
Firebird/Camaro - WS6 parts on an SS Camaro, Z28 parts on a Formula (not a V6 model) Who cares again, I see no real advantages here either.
Corvette/Caddy and F150/Mustang - ....these are not the same cars.

You are also making quite the exception and where do you draw the line. The line is pretty well defined right now. Once you allow the BRZ to install the TRD springs, can you then also install the OEM BRZ springs on an FR-S?

Yep, who cares, do it. I can't think of a situation where this rule would allow a car any kind of significant performance advantage. Someone tell me what I'm missing.



The FR-S and the BRZ need to be on an equal playing field, period. There's too many SCCA members that bought these cars to compete in Street class to let a Toyota document with unfortunate verbiage alienate half of the owners. I think it's a bit ridiculous to see how many BRZ owners have simply bailed because of this minor performance advantage, but the cars should be on the same level of prep.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

Yep, who cares, do it. I can't think of a situation where this rule would allow a car any kind of significant performance advantage. Someone tell me what I'm missing.

I can't think of a single situation, if I could I would have just said it. Just because I can't think of it though doesn't mean it doesn't exist and that Hollises of the world won't find and exploit it.

We all agree that the intent is that the BRZ is able to come play in CS and no one is arguing against that. The only problem being that when you gray those lines, people will use that rule beyond it's intent.

I do think that allowing the BRZ to have the TRD springs/bars would be good for the class and the twins. I just don't think it is as black and white as you want to make it. I can see why there is a hesitation.