SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[TMF]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

Perrin 22mm on soft, but all the cars that finish behind me will tell you this bar is too stiff. Could probably drive the slaloms with your eyes closed with this setup and cheater tires.

I see, thanks for the info. Now do you mind me asking what you're running your koni's at and what tire size? I've been running mine at 1/2 turn from full firm up front, and 1/2 turn from full soft rear, and 225/45-17's. I wouldn't mind a hair more rotation on corner entry, so I'm thinking about bumping up the rear koni's. As for gearing, I've only hit the rev limiter in 2nd on one course (out of 4 events), but I could see the larger courses at nats being a bigger issue. Not sure that jumping up to 235/45's will really yield much of a higher top speed.

[AlanLGuy]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

Perrin 22mm on soft, but all the cars that finish behind me will tell you this bar is too stiff. Could probably drive the slaloms with your eyes closed with this setup and cheater tires.

Well obviously those people are wrong if they are behind you!

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by TMF

I see, thanks for the info. Now do you mind me asking what you're running your koni's at and what tire size? I've been running mine at 1/2 turn from full firm up front, and 1/2 turn from full soft rear, and 225/45-17's. I wouldn't mind a hair more rotation on corner entry, so I'm thinking about bumping up the rear koni's. As for gearing, I've only hit the rev limiter in 2nd on one course (out of 4 events), but I could see the larger courses at nats being a bigger issue. Not sure that jumping up to 235/45's will really yield much of a higher top speed.

I've been up front with my full setup the entire time, but everyone seems to gravitate towards Strano bars and 225's.


I'm on the tall tires, Koni's half a turn from full stiff front and rear, 29F 30R These tires don't seem as sensitive to pressures as old Rivals were though. I'll bet you four dollars you hit the limiter at nationals.

[Jawnathin]

Originally Posted by TMF

Yup, here is the article.
Now, granted this is just one test, but the variables of the test seem to be fairly controlled (same tires, two drivers, multiple runs).

Thank you! Very interesting read.

One thing I'd like to add is that the course was slow enough to where the ND could stay in 2nd gear. The current popular belief is that the ND's short gearing could hurt its competitiveness. Apparently stock ND's do between 52 and 55mph in 2nd, depending on tire. It got to 55mph using the tire in the article. A course that required a shift to 3rd on the ND but could be left in 2nd to the NC could have altered the results. Since National level courses tend to be faster than your typical local, shifts to 3rd would certainly be required if using an ND.

In any case, the ND looks to be a pretty incredible performer. A non-Club beating a fully prepped and well driven NC is no joke. Very curious to see where they put it.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

I've been up front with my full setup the entire time, but everyone seems to gravitate towards Strano bars and 225's.


I'm on the tall tires, Koni's half a turn from full stiff front and rear, 29F 30R These tires don't seem as sensitive to pressures as old Rivals were though. I'll bet you four dollars you hit the limiter at nationals.

Thank you, I appreciate your willingness to share. I'm fine with sharing my setup as well, because at the end of the day, it comes down to driver skill. I'll be sure to pack my singles for nats, as I'll probably be losing $4! We'll have to scope each other out at nats. My FRS is navy blue and I have a bright orange helmet...pretty tough to miss.

[markw]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

I've been up front with my full setup the entire time, but everyone seems to gravitate towards Strano bars and 225's.


I'm on the tall tires, Koni's half a turn from full stiff front and rear, 29F 30R These tires don't seem as sensitive to pressures as old Rivals were though. I'll bet you four dollars you hit the limiter at nationals.

It appears to be working well. Just checked Wilmington and you're sitting in first after day 1. Good job. I'm glad to see we don't need to spend 5k on shocks to win. I'll keep working on the driver since mine is similarly prepped. I may do the Perrin 22mm bar, wonder how it compares to the TRD 21mm front. Before the TRD springs, I ran the Perrin 19mm front and the car felt great.

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by markw

It appears to be working well. Just checked Wilmington and you're sitting in first after day 1. Good job. I'm glad to see we don't need to spend 5k on shocks to win. I'll keep working on the driver since mine is similarly prepped. I may do the Perrin 22mm bar, wonder how it compares to the TRD 21mm front. Before the TRD springs, I ran the Perrin 19mm front and the car felt great.

Haven't proved anything yet....still may need $5000 shocks. But I'm not spending any more money on shocks than what I got with my under cambered 50k mile Koni inserts.


+.078 was a bummer this weekend. Potocki's and Ferchak drove really well. I'll load video later tonight.


If you have the front 21mm TRD front, I'd just leave it.


I'm buying tires tonight..... My 235's look decent (120+ runs), but everyone says full depth tires are slower...I think these people are just crazy. I'm buying new tires today and testing them this weekend on concrete, I'll report my findings.... just need to determine 225/45/17 or more 235's... Wilmington (at least day 2) was definitely a 225 course. Makes me wonder if I should actually have both sizes on hand for nationals.

[AlanLGuy]

Was really surprised to see that Harvey passed you on Sunday. I did enjoy seeing 3 different cars in the trophies though, have to appreciate how well balanced CS seems to be right now.

I think the 235's worked well for Day 1, I pinged the limiter once before the huge sweeper and felt like the shift point in the finish was about perfect, but they were definitely not doing much for me on Day 2 (plus I drove like absolute crap)

Funnily enough Mike Eckert and I were working on shock adjustments all weekend, and wound up a feeling like 1/4 turn from full stiff in the rear and 1/2 from full stiff in the front was where the car felt best. Pretty close to where you said you were. I'm also not on the TRD springs, have a smaller front bar, and the OEM rear.

I was so psyched to be within .3 of Fenter on Saturday, unfortunately he was obviously having a slightly off day, because he pulled way ahead on Sunday.

I have to say that the running first heat on Saturday was a little challenging. The car had no rear grip first run and we softened the rears significantly only to crank them back up Over the next few runs. Next time I'll just drive through it and know that the rear grip will come in as the dust gets swept off.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

Haven't proved anything yet....still may need $5000 shocks. But I'm not spending any more money on shocks than what I got with my under cambered 50k mile Koni inserts.


+.078 was a bummer this weekend. Potocki's and Ferchak drove really well. I'll load video later tonight.


If you have the front 21mm TRD front, I'd just leave it.


I'm buying tires tonight..... My 235's look decent (120+ runs), but everyone says full depth tires are slower...I think these people are just crazy. I'm buying new tires today and testing them this weekend on concrete, I'll report my findings.... just need to determine 225/45/17 or more 235's... Wilmington (at least day 2) was definitely a 225 course. Makes me wonder if I should actually have both sizes on hand for nationals.

+.078 and took second? That is a very close margin, bummer you missed first, but still an excellent performance!

About the front bar, I just found yesterday that the TRD front is in fact 21mm...and I'm assuming the Perrin 22mm on soft is going to be pretty darn close.

Has anyone tried the staggered setup with 225's in front and 235's in the rear? I'm about to have my 225's flipped, but I'm tempted to flip 2, and buy 235's for the rear. Ideally, you'll get the sharp turn-in and slightly higher top speed, but only give up the low-end torque. Tough for me to say as I haven't had a chance to test the 235's. I'm also curious if the staggered setup would throw off the balance and create a need for adjusting tire pressures and/or koni settings.

Seeing as I don't have any good events (well, perhaps one) prior to nats, I might just stick with my current setup. I doubt I'll be in contention for winning CS anyway, but I'd at least like to finish in the top half!

Originally Posted by AlanLGuy

Was really surprised to see that Harvey passed you on Sunday. I did enjoy seeing 3 different cars in the trophies though, have to appreciate how well balanced CS seems to be right now.

I think the 235's worked well for Day 1, I pinged the limiter once before the huge sweeper and felt like the shift point in the finish was about perfect, but they were definitely not doing much for me on Day 2 (plus I drove like absolute crap)

Funnily enough Mike Eckert and I were working on shock adjustments all weekend, and wound up a feeling like 1/4 turn from full stiff in the rear and 1/2 from full stiff in the front was where the car felt best. Pretty close to where you said you were. I'm also not on the TRD springs, have a smaller front bar, and the OEM rear.

I was so psyched to be within .3 of Fenter on Saturday, unfortunately he was obviously having a slightly off day, because he pulled way ahead on Sunday.

I have to say that the running first heat on Saturday was a little challenging. The car had no rear grip first run and we softened the rears significantly only to crank them back up Over the next few runs. Next time I'll just drive through it and know that the rear grip will come in as the dust gets swept off.

Hey all it takes is to be on your A-game while the rest of the field isn't for a class win! Everybody has their good and bad days...



Random side note: I worked at a local track event last week and got in some free track time. I had the stock tires on as I was trying to conserve my stones for nats...holy drift fest! It was amazing how that loss of grip really allowed the low hp to rotate the rear end on command.

[SeanRTR]

I won the Peru match tour last year (against Harvey) with my staggered setup, 225/45/17 front, 245/40/17 rear, BFG Rivals. I didn't think this setup made my car understeer despite people telling me it would. 235 in the rear only should be fine I'd think, I may even try this this weekend. The car is much more fun to drive with less grippy tires. Again, part of why I think the grip of the RE71R makes this car kind of brainless to drive quickly.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

I won the Peru match tour last year (against Harvey) with my staggered setup, 225/45/17 front, 245/40/17 rear, BFG Rivals. I didn't think this setup made my car understeer despite people telling me it would. 235 in the rear only should be fine I'd think, I may even try this this weekend. The car is much more fun to drive with less grippy tires. Again, part of why I think the grip of the RE71R makes this car kind of brainless to drive quickly.

I see, thanks for the info.

And I definitely understand what you mean. Even though it was "slower" on stock tires, it was a blast to drive. I do agree that this car is brainless/easy to drive quickly, however I think that makes the whole field much more competitive and tightly spaced. I think in order to take a win, the driver is going to need to be spot-on with every steering input, throttle lift, braking point, etc. It may be easy to drive fast, but I think it will be tough to win.

For comparison sake, my ~400whp STI was tougher(?) to drive fast, but it covered up my mistakes. With that car, it was about throttle management and braking as late as possible into each turn. In the FRS, there is still throttle management, but instead of "how much throttle can I give it"...it becomes "how long can I hold full throttle, and lift as little as possible." And don't touch the brake unless you need weight transfer!

If you want more of a challenge, perhaps a CSP FR-S? Might cost a few pennies though. Otherwise the C5 Z06 has double the hp, is still competitive in AS, and should be a hair tougher to drive fast

[Briankbot]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

Koni's half a turn from full stiff front and rear,

Originally Posted by AlanLGuy

Funnily enough Mike Eckert and I were working on shock adjustments all weekend, and wound up a feeling like 1/4 turn from full stiff in the rear and 1/2 from full stiff in the front was where the car felt best.

Yes, this is funny (not haha funny though). I also landed at 1/2 turn from full stiff front and 1/4 turn from full stiff rear, though I do tweak the rear on occasion depending on pavement type.

[renfield90]

If that's working for you guys, great. But when we dyno'd my Konis we started at full soft, and after seeing the graph at halfway to full stiff we said "yep, we've seen enough here" and took it off the dyno. I've ran them in that range ever since.

[7thgear]

^have you ever dynoed any bilsteins to compare?