Got my car back from Vortech!-3rd party tests & test drivers thread

[Calum]

@2forme, I took the numbers as raw (244.11) and corrected (254.9). If the shop were to put in a flywheel curve they would require a correction factor. It seems pretty reasonable to me that they just didn't input one, or removed their standard on. If you look the engine power shows nil. I highly doubt gem unbolted his engine and hooked it up to an engine dyno so why would you assume anything other then at the wheels.

The man's not here say this is what everyone else will see, he's here showing us what he's seen with this kit. He's keeping us updated as things change as best he can. I really don't think there's anything wrong. I'm curious about this dyno to, but not because I suspect foul play, because it's new to me.

[2forme]

Queue the name calling, troll, ebully, Whatever. I don't call people names. I don't flame people. I ask them to explain stuff.

Apparently that's trolling. Apparently people get mad when someone wants an answer.

You know what? @TemeCal. Since I'm a troll, or ebully, or whatever other name you'd like to call me. Here's your chance to back up what you say. Show me where I troll in FullBlown's thread, or AVO's thread, or Crawfords Turbo thread, or any other thread in the FI section that Gem doesn't post in? Go ahead. Show me where I'm an E-Bully with insults and name calling. Answer all the questions I have rather than posting subtle jabs.

Answer all my questions with proven fact, and I'll gladly leave this thread alone. Hell, I'll publically admit if I was wrong about anything. You can't because I'm not a troll. No, you just don't agree with my opinion. That's the problem.

Originally Posted by Calum

@2forme, I took the numbers as raw (244.11) and corrected (254.9). If the shop were to put in a flywheel curve they would require a correction factor. It seems pretty reasonable to me that they just didn't input one, or removed their standard on. If you look the engine power shows nil. I highly doubt gem unbolted his engine and hooked it up to an engine dyno so why would you assume anything other then at the wheels.

The man's not here say this is what everyone else will see, he's here showing us what he's seen with this kit. He's keeping us updated as things change as best he can. I really don't think there's anything wrong. I'm curious about this dyno to, but not because I suspect foul play, because it's new to me.

Oh absolutely, I don't question whether he altered the dyno at all. But we're trying to gauge a comparison between the 8.5 psi and 10psi pulley. It's hard to do without knowing what the exact difference between the two plots listed on his dyno are, aside from differences in the dyno tech itself. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Queue the name calling, troll, ebully, Whatever. I don't call people names. I don't flame people. I ask them to explain stuff.

Apparently that's trolling. Apparently people get mad when someone wants an answer.

You know what? @TemeCal. Since I'm a troll, or ebully, or whatever other name you'd like to call me. Here's your chance to back up what you say. Show me where I troll in FullBlown's thread, or AVO's thread, or Crawfords Turbo thread, or any other thread in the FI section that Gem doesn't post in? Go ahead. Show me where I'm an E-Bully with insults and name calling. Answer all the questions I have rather than posting subtle jabs.

Answer all my questions with proven fact, and I'll gladly leave this thread alone. Hell, I'll publically admit if I was wrong about anything. You can't because I'm not a troll. No, you just don't agree with my opinion. That's the problem.

Now now, lets not get rubbed the wrong way and get defensive-keep this non personal!!

You add value to our community ,and just like me, not everyone likes what I ask/post, 2forme and I are more similar than we are unlike. On a personal level, I look forward to sharing a beer, since I like our local microbrew, with 2forme. GRANTED, IN 'forumland', some users can be a bit annoying, I'm sure i am the same way at times to some of you

I dont want people picking fights please, lets be adults

I'm sorry if you felt called out, imagine how I feel?

Joe said he was going to try and post in this thread. lets all sit tight shall we? I want to satiate the doubts/confusion, and suggested Joe be the one to do it. Since they arent selling anything as a vendor, it should be okay if he posts as a user...

[2forme]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Now now, lets not get rubbed the wrong way and get defensive

You add value to our community ,and just like me, not everyone likes what I ask/post, 2forme and I are more similar than we are unlike. On a personal level, I look forward to sharing a beer. GRANTED, IN 'forumland', some users can be a bit annoying, I'm sure i am the same way at times to some of you

I dont want people picking fights please, lets be adults

I'm sorry if you felt called out, imagine how I feel?

Joe said he was going to post in this thread. lets all sit tight shall we?

Gem, we are like bickering old men on a porch with a beer. People passing by would think we hate each other.

But no, TemeCal has personally jabbed at me before, so let's give him a chance to prove himself.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by TemeCal

I appreciate all of your hard work, dynos, and personal money you've spent to provide this information. I personally agree that 2forme is out of line...not just here...but in most FI threads. Some defend him, saying he's only seeking truth. Those that defend him, tell others to "chill" when they voice their opinions or try to thank/defend Gem. There are a few posters (everyone knows who they are) in this FI section, that make it unbearable at times.

With that said, you can guarantee I will never post a dyno. I will keep the dyno to myself, because frankly, it's not worth being badgered and doubted by some of these guys. I'm sure I'm not alone in this, which ultimately hurts the forum. Why would anyone want to post a dyno?

...and cue the e-bullies telling me to chill. Cue the e-bullies telling me I'm wrong, and that they're simply truth seeking. Cue the e-bullies saying they have nothing against Gem. Cue the e-bullies saying this is an adult conversation, and there are no hard feelings. You guys are so predictable.

If only you had any idea about the stories that happen here behind the lines.... Before your next post directed at me, calling me e-bully or whatever you want, go and ready my posts. I am only asking legitimate questions. No personally attacking no one. You don't like it that's fine, don't. The only person that needs to understand this is Gem and he does.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by 2forme

You're right, Gem. I'm sure GoodSpeed changed their naming schema just for your specific dyno. Everyone else gets wheel horsepower and brake horsepower, while Gem gets WHP and WHP+.

There is no troll crew. There are people who want answers for the inconsistencies and vagueness abound in YOUR vortech thread. Do you see people questioning Phastek's results? Anyone? No.

Okay, he is waiting for his account to be approved by mods, and intended to post here but here is what I have for you @2forme

I sent him a link to this thread and he has read it, viewed the two dyno charts the one I posted and the you guys posted seeking clarification, which I am fine with

if this dont make you happy, I dont think its within my sphere of influence to help you all further from here:

need more input? got questions? still have doubts that Vortechs kit will do 255 WHEEL HORSE POWER at 10psi AT 1500feet altitude?
Joe can be reached, google goodspeed performance labs...he is the owner, and he's like another Jeff Perrin, he's got a serious operation there in Scottsdale and a swell, easy going, ON POINT kinda guy to deal with. Highly recommend.

Thanks for playing the forum doubt game, see below

[2forme]

Thank you Gem, this is all I was asking for. Now pick a damn dyno tech and stick with it.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

if this dont make you happy, I dont think its within my sphere of influence to help you all further from here:

Sounds good Gem. Thanks for answering my question. That was all I wanted to know. The Dyno is capable to turn on or off the "crank" HP figure. Thanks for taking the time. I'm sure you were not offended by my question. Very good numbers!! :happy0180:

[Huehuecoyotl]

Really, with this kit under my hood there isnt a thing that anyone could post that would change the joy and indescribable throttle pedal elation I'm feeling since yesterdays power upgrade.

I have a 3rd party drive along planned this weekend, so watch for that post, and will get you guys some in car video next!

Back to having MORE FUN!!

[King Tut]

I just wanted to say that I am IN for a caravan to Gem's house to dyno my Full Blown kit as well.

[Mobius357]

Errr...I think all of this could have been avoided. That chart lists 4 power values

Corrected Power
Engine Power
Wheel Power
Drag Power
@2forme your sample chart has all 4 values stated, suggesting that driveline drag was measured, then added to wheel power for engine power, then corrected via SAE J 1349. Gem's chart lacks the drag and engine power values, indicating drag wasn't measured on that pull, leaving only wheel power and SAE correction. At least that was my interpretation, 'course...Gem posted the email confirmation so this is moot.

I really like how much information is provided by the software on that dyno, and how well it's presented. The chart doesn't list a smoothing factor though, so maybe it's not adjustable?

[2forme]

Originally Posted by Mobius357

Errr...I think all of this could have been avoided. That chart lists 4 power values

Corrected Power
Engine Power
Wheel Power
Drag Power
@2forme your sample chart has all 4 values stated, suggesting that driveline drag was measured, then added to wheel power for engine power, then corrected via SAE J 1349. Gem's chart lacks the drag and engine power values, indicating drag wasn't measured on that pull, leaving only wheel power and SAE correction. At least that was my interpretation, 'course...Gem posted the email confirmation so this is moot.

I really like how much information is provided by the software on that dyno, and how well it's presented. The chart doesn't list a smoothing factor though, so maybe it's not adjustable?

Yup, just wasn't something I've seen before. It threw me off because of the labels in the legend. The sample chart shows P-Norm as being crank. Whereas with Gem's chart, it's apparently SAE adjusted wheel hp. Not only that, but if you go to their site, and look at any of the dynos listed for other cars, they ALWAYS list P-norm as the crank or (BHP) number. Apparently they did a 1-off for Gem.

[Mobius357]

I'd say it defaults to correcting engine power when drag is measured and wheel when not.

Huh, it even can record FUEL temperature...hehe, I wonder how much debate this forum could have over that little variable.

[Supermassive]

Oh Gem, not a mention about your cruise in my car Can't wait til this weekend to play in your car so i can see the difference first hand between my turbo and your SC!