FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[Matador]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

You guys wanna get a room?

Jealous much?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

The other day I saw a brand new base 370Z auto marked down to $27k by the Nissan dealer close to me. If it was a manual I would have been very tempted by it, except I would probably want the sports package.

Ok, I'll add these caveats as well: Also if it was made by Toyota and 500 to 1000 lbs lighter.

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Ok, I'll add these caveats as well: Also if it was made by Toyota and 500 to 1000 lbs lighter.

1000lbs lighter? Isn't that. stretch considering the car has a V6 and already goes 0-60 in 5.1 seconds? You need an Ariel Atom!

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by iff2mastamatt

1000lbs lighter? Isn't that. stretch considering the car has a V6 and already goes 0-60 in 5.1 seconds? You need an Ariel Atom!

I'm still holding out for my GT5 weight +10% guess (which would be about 2420 lbs) for the FT86. 370Z is around 3300 lbs? That's about 900 lbs lighter... See where I was going there?

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I'm still holding out for my GT5 weight +10% guess (which would be about 2420 lbs) for the FT86. 370Z is around 3300 lbs? That's about 900 lbs lighter... See where I was going there?

Definitely, but the ft86 has a much better chance of being under 2500lbs than a Z. For me, I don't really care about the weight, but rather for the performance specs than anything else.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by iff2mastamatt

Definitely, but the ft86 has a much better chance of being under 2500lbs than a Z. For me, I don't really care about the weight, but rather for the performance specs than anything else.

That is exactly my point.

Going back to the original topic, comparing the two makes little sense. I want this car to be as light as possible, and we're talking about a potential of $10k-$15k cheaper.

I can see a potential Z buyer cross-shopping the cheaper FT86/FR-S but not the other way, mainly on price.

But if it comes in under 2500lbs, when people start modding them for more power they will be more than a match for Zs.

Lotus founder Colin Chapman has pointed out that, all things being equal, a 200 hp 2000 lbs car will out-lap a 300 hp 3000 lbs car. So it's even more than just power to weight. Lighter is better.

At 2500 lbs with 200 hp, it would only need a 50-60 hp bump to match the Z's ratio.

[SUB-FT86]

I love the Z but I would choose a FR-S over it even though the Z is faster in the straights. With high gas prices I don't care about big power anymore unless it's a ecotec-like 2.0 liter boxer turbo. I only want more power if it comes with a 35 mpg highway.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I love the Z but I would choose a FR-S over it even though the Z is faster in the straights. With high gas prices I don't care about big power anymore unless it's a ecotec-like 2.0 liter boxer turbo. I only want more power if it comes with a 35 mpg highway.

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is going to be a performance car... I hope. Im not sure why people expect the best of both worlds, either the tech is in performance or its in fuel efficiency , the two rarely mix. The more the compromise the performance the less I will like it.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is going to be a performance car... I hope. Im not sure why people expect the best of both worlds, either the tech is in performance or its in fuel efficiency , the two rarely mix. The more the compromise the performance the less I will like it.

On the other side, we can be optimistic because a large performance engine isn't any less efficient at producing power near maximum torque as a small economy engine, it's the part load losses that are much greater when you don't need the extra gazillion horsepower, and there's a lot of gains to be made there still, many of which we may see pretty soon. Fuel efficiency is less of a priority in a performance application sure, but on road cars it's certainly a major consideration due to operating cost and regulations.

Technological advances aside, even K20 and 2ZZ powered cars get pretty good gas mileage despite being performance oriented, there's no reason to expect any less in the fuel economy department, especially with such a small car (low aerodynamic drag!), although some of the higher mpg numbers might not be feasible due to cost constraints. This is Toyota afterall, the company that sells the most on fuel efficiency.

[Snaps]

To add - Toyota have said they could aim for (and reach) 230ps, but they would lose a lot of the efficiency of the engine. That they have said it will be around 200hp means it shoud have very good efficiency for a performance car.

And, that said, the restrictions will most likely be intake/exhaust/maybe cams ones... So, swap them out and you should be able to make a lot more power (for the people that want to )

[Leeky]

Originally Posted by Dimman

How much do you know about turning the 2AZ to RWD, Dragon? I'm assuming custom oil pan, motor mounts, intake manifold turbo mani, and trans adapter plate. But what about the alternator location, etc..? And what transmission and rear diff are they using in the RWD tC's?

I've got a second Supra that has an oil burning 7M with 330,000km but a really good body that may be interesting to experiment, as I may be finally getting a garage to work in. I was originally thinking 3MZ, but the 2AZ would probably be quite a bit cheaper and is decently supported (after market internals are available.) Could be an interesting alternative to my 1JZ car, as the 2AZ will likely be WAY lighter. So making a bit less power will be offset by it lightening the car. And the car could end up handling a LOT better with the balance improvement.

(This would be considered blasphemy in the Supra community, but I've already got a 1JZ powered car so I should be safe from the flames...)

The VVTI 4.0 1UZ-FE/4.3 3UZ-FE are excellent engines for Supra's. Both totally alloy engines (4.7 2UZ is a heavy cast version) making 300bhp stock with stock ECU.

Very easy to get hold of good donor cars. There are off the shelf manual bellhousing conversion kits for both the W58 and the R154 gearboxes.

I've personally had experience of doing this swap as i was the first person (Possibly still the only person) in Europe to put a 1UZ into an MA61 (MK2 Celica Supra) with an R154 from an MA70.

With a stock Rev2 engine (265bhp in the Lexus LS400), just a set of headers and a Link Ecu i was destorying brand new 350z's on the 1/4 mile.... until the diff exploded...

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I'm still holding out for my GT5 weight +10% guess (which would be about 2420 lbs) for the FT86. 370Z is around 3300 lbs? That's about 900 lbs lighter... See where I was going there?

I am so not getting my hopes up for that.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Snaps

To add - Toyota have said they could aim for (and reach) 230ps, but they would lose a lot of the efficiency of the engine. That they have said it will be around 200hp means it shoud have very good efficiency for a performance car.

And, that said, the restrictions will most likely be intake/exhaust/maybe cams ones... So, swap them out and you should be able to make a lot more power (for the people that want to )

intake and exhaust restrictions seem like they would hinder both performance and mileage

[bofa]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

The other day I saw a brand new base 370Z auto marked down to $27k by the Nissan dealer close to me. If it was a manual I would have been very tempted by it, except I would probably want the sports package.

Eh, that used to be the base MSRP for the 350Z before they jacked up the prices for the 370Z. My 06 was a base and my 08 is an enthusiast, definitely like the 08 better (plus it wasn't a lemon!).