Wrecked FR-S Crash Already - Not Mine

[vividracing]

Props to the owner for stepping up and posting what happened. Sucks man.... Any word from insurance?

[russv]

I grew up driving RWD cars, 1950 Ford, 1958 Ford, Multiple VW's with rear engine. I used to go driving on dirt roads and intentionally put the cars into a drift to see how they would respond and learned from that. I will say that driving the old rear engined VW's in the rain was definitely a learning, and scary, experience. I'm leaving my traction controls on.

[Celicadude]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

I tell you what: Driving fun has hardly anything to do with power! This car has more than enough power, for some it will even be too much.Why drive a Lambo with 600 hp, if you are unable to control it?You will have much more fun in an old BMW E30 with 100 hp, that you can drive by yourself.

I agree with this 100%, driving the lambo was fun but was it more fun than driving my celica. Probably a little bit, but would I run out and buy a lambo just to take to the track. Hellz no. Was it an experience of a lifetime. You bet you ass it was. If anything driving on the track made me more humble to the fact that I am not as good a driver as I thought and made me realize that all this talk of 0-60 and corner g's is a load of crap if you don't have the skill to utilize any of those stats. In fact when I was out there a guy with a fully loaded navigator (7 passengers) smoked me on the track in the lambo. And I'm 100% sure he had tcs on.

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Driving fun for a sports driver comes out of a lively handling and the ability to drive a car at its limits. If you can't drive a certain car at its limit without VSC/TSC, please don't try it with these systems! This is dangerous, too!

Yes, exactly. At the track. Not on your way to buy milk from the grocery store. There is no reason for someone to test their skills out on the public roads. TCS are a driver aid designed to make driving all cars(not just rwd) a little safer (for when you are driving your car like a regular person). And yes people should learn to drive with them off in a safe and controlled environment. But I gurantee, if you sign up for professional driving instruction with your own car, the instructors will tell you to keep your traction control on until they can guage your skill level. Then they will work you up to all systems off. But this nonsense that they should be off at all times is ridiculous and dangerous. I mean would you want your pilot flying the plane without any of the automated aids even though he/she is more than capable of flying without them. I for one don't. When it comes down to it the driver (or pilot in my analogy) is the backup system, but that doesn't mean we need to all go and throw away the safety nets that we have available to us.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Celicadude

... In fact when I was out there a guy with a fully loaded navigator (7 passengers) smoked me on the track in the lambo. And I'm 100% sure he had tcs on.

Sorry, a Lincoln Navigator?? This fat SUV thing??? Faster than you in a Lambo?
How comes???

Originally Posted by Celicadude

.... But this nonsense that they should be off at all times is ridiculous and dangerous. ....

Sorry, I think you got me wrong here. I never intended to say it should always be switched off. Especially not for beginners.
I just said you can't learn to drive your car well, if you never switch it off.

In fact I always switch the traction control off, when I got some nice corners ahead (my current car does not have VSC).

Let me explain something.
Imaging you - in 20 years from now.
Your son comes to you saying:

"Daddy, please, stop that steering nonsense! This is very dangerous! What do you think why your car is equipped with an automated steering system? This is not fun, it's very dangerous to touch the steering wheel while driving on public roads! A friend of mine recently touched the steering wheel at 40 mph and immediately crashed into a parking car! What other proof do you need?? Please, promise that you will not touch the steering wheel ever again!"

What would you say?
Or think?

Can you imagine, I have driven for 17 years RWD cars without ANY such systems: No ABS, no VSC, no traction control, no nothing.
I drove them in the dry, in the wet, on snow, on the way to work and on a hot lap on a racing track.

And now some young guys come telling me this is way too dangerous......
What????

This is why I try to tell you guys two different things at the same time:
- Yes, you are right, please be carefull!
- No, you definitely can and should learn how to drive a car by yourself!

[civicdrivr]

My 2 cents - I drive with all nannies off, unless it is raining heavy (in which case I just have it in sport mode). I find TCS to be incredibly obtrusive. None of my previous cars had TCS, and I find that my foot can control traction just fine.

Granted, Im not racing everywhere, but I do try to enjoy the drive.

And I do agree with the last statement in the previous post. People need to learn and understand how to control their vehicle. TCS/VSA is not something to be dependent on, but rather another tool in the event things go south. Its very similar to those people in their AWD trucks doing 80mph down the highway in a blizzard, all the while on all season tires.

[pkptd447]

[Asterisked Accolade]

[blu_]

Obviously crappy drivers.

[YoshiMike13]

Man that has got to suck! I don't even drive yet, but my mom may be getting a brz, thus me learning how to drive in it. I love the car, I showed it to her actually. But anyways, I feel bad for you, we all make careless mistakes, but some have stronger negative consequences.

[Celicadude]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Sorry, a Lincoln Navigator?? this fat SUV thing??? Faster than you in a Lambo?
How comes???




Sorry, I think you got me wrong here. I never intended to say it should always be switched off. Especially not for beginners.
I just said you can't learn to drive your car well, if you never switch it off.

In fact I always switch the traction control off, when I got some nice corners ahead (my current car does not have VSC).

Let me explain something.
Imaging you - in 20 years from now.
Your son comes to you saying:

"Daddy, please, stop that steering nonsense! This is very dangerous! What do you think why your car is equipped with an automated steering system? This is not fun, it's very dangerous to touch the steering wheel while driving on public roads! A friend of mine recently touched the steering wheel at 40 mph and immediately crashed into a parking car! What other proof do you need?? Please, promise that you will not touch the steering wheel ever again!"

What would you say?
Or think?

Can you imagine, I have driven for 17 years RWD cars without ANY such systems: No ABS, no VSC, no traction control, no nothing.
In drove them in the dry, in the wet, on snow, on the way to work and on a hot lap on a racing track.

And now some young guys come telling me this is way too dangerous......
What????

This is why I try to tell you guys two different things at the same time:
- Yes, you are right, please be carefull!
- No, you definitely can and should learn how to drive a car by yourself!

Yes I think we agree on the same point. Learn your car but be safe in public. People should learn the limits of their cars under controlled conditions. And yes lol the big ass navigator smoked the hell out of me. Navigator driven by a professional instructor with 30 years experience vs me in a 200k car with 0 track experience. Experience beats raw power every time. I will be the first one to say that I know nothing about driving on a track, and that it was a very humbling and very enriching experience. Which is why after that drive I signed up for the performance driving school using my own car. You are obviously more experienced than most people here with rwd cars because you've been driving them for so long. But for the new comers who grew up with fwd civics, integras and in my case celicas all we're hearing is that its "no fun to drive with traction control on, you need to switch it off in order to have fun" "or you will crash with it on so might as well switch it off" which I think is putting out the wrong message. Is it more fun with it off when you know what you are doing. Yes. Is it necessary to turn it off for daily driving, probably not. Problem is 90% of people overestimate their driving abilities big time (as I did with the lambo example above) and sometimes some people end up paying the price.

TCS is just a safety system just like any other safety system. Would you rip out your airbag or not wear a seat belt because you've been in accidents without them and walked away fine. There was a point in time where these features weren't in cars. They're there for your protection and the protection of others. The fact of the matter is nowadays people are not required to know how to drive their cars well at all(at least in the US) in order to get a license (The state of MD didn't require people to drive on public roads at all until just recently). I really wish they made the testing more stringent (I mean seriously how is making a 3 point turn and parallel parking going to help you merge on a highway), but that just isn't the reality. TCS in general (not just in sports cars)is a system that makes sure that somebody who doesn't know their car, aka the vast majority of drivers, and doesn't care to know their car, or thinks they know their car, doesn't crash into everything when they make a mistake, or are put into a situation they weren't trained to handle. Hell there was a study not to long ago that said most BMW owners didn't realize their car was rwd. This is the world of driving ignorance we live in today. Would it be nice if everyone was forced to become better drivers, yup, but it's not going to happen anytime soon. But for now, i'm all for electronics overcompensating peoples abilities on public roads. I'm not worried about experienced people like yourself that know how to drive and don't crash every car they own. Its these other people,and boy have i seen them, who need all the help they can get. On a side note, living in the DC area I wouldn't mind if everyone over here drove a car that drove and steered itself lol. The idiots that drive out here are suicidal and it would probably eliminate this god awful traffic.

But yes I think we agree on the same points here LOL.

[vividracing]

Originally Posted by Brett

How did they drive? They probably had more accidents, which inspired someone to invent traction control.

Brett

No the cars weigh more back then. They crashed but since they were made of metal. You just backed up and kept driving.

Also Darwin didn't have such a hold on the population as well.

[ZDan]

Cars from the 60s don't have ANYthing on being big and heavy vs today's oversized/overweight behemoths. In any case, today's cars are indeed MUCH safer.

[konichiwaa-B]

Hits close to home for those with a white-out that's for sure. I almost had an old lady sideswipe me in a parking lot the other day. She was grinding up against a parked truck next to her as she slowly drove pass me in the opposite direction. It was like a slow motion accident, and she didn't even realize she was hitting the other car. She just smiled as she slowly drove around me. Morale of the story. Never offer the right away to a little old lady. Hold you hand up, tell her to stop, and get the hell out of there!

[Reflex]

Make me weary to drive my FR-S now since i'm coming from a weak, FWD '98 civic..

Hope this doesn't happen to anyone else though.. damn