Scion FT-86 FR-S

[Matador]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

i know it will never be a daihatsu.. i also know that daihatsu has some reputation for cars (albeit not for any performance), however i laugh to my self every time i drive past one. i just picked something lesser than toyota to compare it to so that scion ppl can see how toyota ppl look at them, since scion purists will believe it should be a scion, even tho they should possibly drink some cyanide since they think scion>toyota...

Performance is relative. They have a long history of rally cars. None really fast, but all ridiculously fun.

Sirion/Storia/boon X4
Charade GTi/Detomaso (original 3cyl turbo & G20x 16/16)
YRV Turbo

You're from australia, you should know this.

[70NYD]

no im from yugoslavia.. i only lived (and still live) in australia for a part of my life..
when i think daihatsu i think comuter cars.. friend had a GTi and it went pretty quick.. ugly as all hell though.. copen is "ok" for a chix car (fucking better than micra thats for sure) never really paid any attention daihatsu tho, always seemed like cheap appliances to me tho.. (cars like daihatsu applause dont help.. REALLY, APPLAUSE? YOUR GONNA NAME A CAR APPLAUSE??? WTF ARE YOU APPLAUDING its fucking ugly)
i think i mentioned before somewhere that i judge cars on looks as well.. well i mentioned for sports cars anyway, i mentioned this in regards to the last get mr2.. cus it isnt a winner in the looks departmant altough its a very good performing car.. well this goes for commuter cars as well.. it might be reliable or fun to drive but if it looks like pile of shit IT IS A PILE OF SHIT IMO (a fast pile of shit perhaps.. same goes if it looks good but it doesnt perform well)
this is all my opinion, as well as opinion of 99% of people that i know.. but it does not represent the general consensus

[Calais]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

It's going to have an abundance of Support in the Aftermarket no matter if it's a Scion or a Toyota. There is nothing to suggest the aftermarket would be bigger under Toyota when the tC has a VAST aftermarket itself, and it's a coupe with an "economy" motor. They would sale more as a Toyota also based on the idea that Scion is suppose to be a more niche market and a direct targeted demographic. This is why people said Toyota/Scion made a mistake with the xB2 (since the redesign was not quirky and tried to appeal to the normal Toyota buyer). It's suppose to be Scion and suppose to appeal to a smaller group of demographic. It's not meant to be a global seller and be "boring" enough to be a mass seller (no offense, just saying the more radical the design the smaller the demographic).

Ahhhh, but it is! It needs to be a global seller to be profitable and for that all important next gen model im on about! get my drift??

Originally Posted by 70NYD

no im from yugoslavia.. i only lived (and still live) in australia for a part of my life..

hahaha 7ONYD THE YUGOLSAV!!!

i'll just fix the rest of your post for you! corrections in italic and underlined

Originally Posted by 70NYD

when i think daihatsu i think comuter cars.. friend had a GTi and it went pretty quick.. ugly as all hell though.. copen is "ok" for a chix car (better than micra thats for sure fucken') never really paid any attention daihatsu fucken', always seemed like cheap appliances to me tho.. (cars like daihatsu applause dont help.. REALLY, APPLAUSE? YOUR GONNA NAME A CAR APPLAUSE??? FUCKEN!! WTF ARE YOU APPLAUDING its ugly fucken')
i think i mentioned before somewhere that i judge cars on looks as well.. well i mentioned for sports cars anyway, i mentioned this in regards to the last get mr2.. cus it isnt a winner in the looks departmant altough its a very good performing car.. well this goes for commuter cars as well.. it might be reliable or fun to drive but if it looks like pile of shit IT IS A PILE OF SHIT IMO (a fast pile of shit perhaps.. same goes if it looks good but it doesnt perform well fucken')
this is all my opinion, as well as opinion of 99% of people that i know.. but it does not represent the general consensus FUCKEN!!

p.s. 2 things for you 7ONYD 1. im greek and 2. fuck i hope you've seen The Wog Boy

everyone else who dosnt get it you tube: The Wog Boy - Best of Tony the Yugoslav and you'll get it

[Matador]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

no im from yugoslavia.. i only lived (and still live) in australia for a part of my life..
when i think daihatsu i think comuter cars.. friend had a GTi and it went pretty quick.. ugly as all hell though.. copen is "ok" for a chix car (fucking better than micra thats for sure) never really paid any attention daihatsu tho, always seemed like cheap appliances to me tho.. (cars like daihatsu applause dont help.. REALLY, APPLAUSE? YOUR GONNA NAME A CAR APPLAUSE??? WTF ARE YOU APPLAUDING its fucking ugly)

They do principally make transport appliances and kei cars.

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by Calais

Ahhhh, but it is! It needs to be a global seller to be profitable and for that all important next gen model im on about! get my drift??




hahaha 7ONYD THE YUGOLSAV!!!

i'll just fix the rest of your post for you! corrections in italic and underlined



p.s. 2 things for you 7ONYD 1. im greek and 2. fuck i hope you've seen The Wog Boy

everyone else who dosnt get it you tube: The Wog Boy - Best of Tony the Yugoslav and you'll get it

Haha ofcourse I know what your on about do you want me to put the drugs in that fucken?? Hahaha
Yiasou koumbaro :p

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

They do principally make transport appliances and kei cars.

Yeah I think I went a little over the top in that one I mean I'm sure they are very successful at transporting ppl. Just not the sexiests cars you can get

[Calais]

heyyy you know some greek!! i wish i could say something in yugolavian(??) do you know what that means in greek?

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

ok dragonitty and oneway i have a few questions for you
would you buy this car if it was a DIHATSU??
because TOYOTA OWNS 51% of DIHATSU, its not interily impossible is it? (it is, tho very very very improbable)
what would you think then?
what would you think of a dihatsu frs?
would you think dihatsu suits it?
would you think its a piece of shit because its a dihatsu??

Does Dihatsu have championship records under its belt?
Does Dihatsu compete in motorsports with their platforms?
Does Dihatsu have a large aftermarket support to create some potent street and race cars?

If you answer is yes to any of the proceeding questions, then my answer is yes I would consider it. I was considering buying the Genesis Coupe and that's made by Hyundai which is apart of Kia....and we know their prior history of reliability.

Scion is not Dihatsu.

Originally Posted by 70NYD

i think its obvious what the answers are..
now take THAT logic and look at EVERYONE ELSE'S POINT OF VIEW OF IT BEING A SCION RATHER THAN A TOYOTA
i personaly dont know what would be worse a scion or a dihatsu version (hypotheticaly speaking) but at last this will give you a point of view from a TOYOTA purist.
you 2 are clearly SCION LOVERS, and those tC's seem to have SOME sort of potential, and i understand that there is nothing like having a seemingly piece of shit car flog a expensive more powerful one, but noone is going to say that a dihatsu is a performance brand..
this gives you everyone elses point of view, the 95%+ of this forum who arent PRO scion

No one claim Scion was a performance brand.....and guess what...NOTHING in Toyota's current line up says Toyota is a Performance brand Either now does it? I'm not PRO Scion. I'm PRO enthusiast. Perhaps someday you will understand that. Just because I'm proud of what my car has accomplished doesn't mean I think it's the End all Be All. I'm proud of it...end of story. I'm not some little rice boy who thinks I can beat any and every car. Just as much as I think an Evo, STI, 350z...etc....can beat any and every Scion tC. Dihatsu has no support aftermarket and nothing that has remote potential for creating a successful aftermarket. Your analogy makes no sense.

Originally Posted by 70NYD

and daragonitti if you have modified your tC and made it better and faster and more responsive good for you
but while your SPECIFIC tC might be a fairly good one, the BASE car is still shit. nothing will change that. you can take ANY car and throw money at it untill it is the best it can be.. but thats not the point. at the end of the day, cars will be judged by what the majority of ppl can get out of them. if a majority does not spend a butfuckload of money to make their car best, rather uses it in its stock for (which isnt all that) than the cars reputation isnt all that..

Is there something wrong with BUILDING your ride vs buying it? Remember, I owned a 350z as well. So, I've built and enhanced a cars performance, and I've bought a car with performance. Should I be ashamed of either....HELL NO. Not when I've made personal accomplishments with both of them. How ridiculous does that sound to think that a person building up a car with "Obvious" potential, and proven his mods were worth while by showing it waxing on cars twice the cost.....that he/she be compared to the "STOCK" counterpart. I don't give 2cents about stock cars. My FT-86 aint going to come out of the Factory with satisfactory enough performance that I'm going to leave it stock....and neither are you. You know how many times I hear people resort back to the "Oh well it's sucks stock and is slow stock"....SO? Your point? Everything under $70k is slow STOCK. To me anyway. If it's stock and runs 11sec 1/4 miles then that's fast Stock to me and would possibly be something I would leave stock. If it's anything under that...then it will get modified.

R35 GTR's aren't even stock when they hit the race track, so why should I care about stock period? If the potential for the car is there, the aftermarket for the car is there, there is ABSOLUTELY, UN-DOUBTINGLY no Reason it should be stock! I'm an enthusiast, Stock STI, Stock Evo, Stock 350z, Stock S2k, Stock tC, Stock Civic.....ALL EQUAL LAME. And if you think you going to wax me in a Stock S2k at the race track just because it cost more and has more power than I'm currently pushing right now then you should not have to worry about me passing you now do you? Well, haven't come up on a Stock S2k that I wasn't passing up on the track thus far.

[Dragonitti]

It's very interesting when I'm at the race track vs an internet forum. The group of people at an actual track participating in some form of legal racing have a totally different mindset than people sitting behind their keyboards. People at the track are actual enthusiast because you can find all makes and model cars on an HPDE day. There isn't this walking around the paddock snickering at peoples cars like some little High school popularity contest. You are either FAST or you are NOT. At the Race track, a car is only as good as its driver and what he has put into it. If that wasn't the case, then I wouldn't be passing Z06 corvettes, New Mustang GT's, S2k's, Turbo Miatas, Built Integra Type R's......with my STOCK HP Scion tC.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Calais

Ahhhh, but it is! It needs to be a global seller to be profitable and for that all important next gen model im on about! get my drift??

Sorry, that was not the intention of the Scion line. It was suppose to be low volume and direct demographic. Then they went and screwed it up by trying to mass appeal to everyone by creating the xB2. xB1 owers absolutely hated the xB2 because of this. Comparing the xB1 to the xB2, the xB2 looks like a mini van.

[Dark]

@ Dragonitti: I think you get 70NYD wrong. What he really means is that majority people won't heavily mod their cars like you do with the tC. They may mod here and there, but it's not going to be like pushing a 200hp stock to 800hp.
And oh Toyota does enter motorsport mostly in their home country, Japan, NASCA( something is not right here), and other places.
At the end of the day, It's all about personal preference. It's not like " you have to choose this because I love it" or some sh#t like that.

[Dimman]

Maybe a different analogy will work...

Scion and Saturn.

GM made Saturn to appeal to a younger crowd as their 'appliances' weren't really appealing to youth. Like Scion. (Sure they had 'Vettes and Camaros at the time but they were out of younger people's range. Closest Toyota has is the Lexus ISF)

They were quirky, funny looking cars, like Scion.

They had a fixed pricing system, similar to Scion.

It, for some strange reason, had a very small but very devoted owner fan base, like Scion.

It tried to jump onto the import tuning bandwagon, like Scion. With FWD performance (Ion Redline).

It was not taken seriously by either the mainstream buyers, nor the performance enthusiasts. Like Scion.

They decided to move some of their vehicles towards the mainstream, like Scion.

They also thought a real performance car could help generate some 'street cred' (Sky Redline), possibly like Scion going after the FT/R-86/S.

Too late as the image of Saturn was a bunch of super obsessed weirdos that completely over-hyped their cars which were for the most part badge-engineered GM product, like Scion (Dragonitti-types in this case, why not do a crazy 2AZ turbo Camry performance-family build?).

Nobody else cared, Saturn died. And before you shout 'Economic Downturn!' there was talk of killing Saturn long before the economy tanked, the Aura (move mainstream) and Sky (real performance image) were both failed attempts to 'save' the brand.

Like Scion...?

The concern as stated by a few above, is that Toyota will give up on true performance if the car flops. This could be from many things, dumbed-down performance, too expensive, mis-branded, etc...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

It's very interesting when I'm at the race track vs an internet forum. The group of people at an actual track participating in some form of legal racing have a totally different mindset than people sitting behind their keyboards. People at the track are actual enthusiast because you can find all makes and model cars on an HPDE day. There isn't this walking around the paddock snickering at peoples cars like some little High school popularity contest. You are either FAST or you are NOT. At the Race track, a car is only as good as its driver and what he has put into it. If that wasn't the case, then I wouldn't be passing Z06 corvettes, New Mustang GT's, S2k's, Turbo Miatas, Built Integra Type R's......with my STOCK HP Scion tC.

OK. Maybe some progress can be made here.

Is the Z06 Vette a better track weapon than a modified tC? (I'm assuming you're running a close to stock motor now, but a well-put together and tuned suspension/brake package, from what you have implied.)

You are saying that driving makes up the difference. No one will dispute that. But you are using your superior driving skill as support that the tC is a better car.

That is ridiculous.

You beat a shitty driver in an epic car with your tC. That doesn't mean that the tC is anywhere NEAR the performance of a Z06. You know this. We all know this.

You are the much better driver. Get in that Z06 and run some laps. Compare to your tC laps. What's going to be the result?

You are a good driver, despite your car. And probably a good suspension/alignment setup guy too. Not taking that away from you at all. But seriously, you could probably be doing the same thing in a Camry or Matrix.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Dimman

OK. Maybe some progress can be made here.

Is the Z06 Vette a better track weapon than a modified tC? (I'm assuming you're running a close to stock motor now, but a well-put together and tuned suspension/brake package, from what you have implied.)

You are saying that driving makes up the difference. No one will dispute that. But you are using your superior driving skill as support that the tC is a better car.

That is ridiculous.

You beat a shitty driver in an epic car with your tC. That doesn't mean that the tC is anywhere NEAR the performance of a Z06. You know this. We all know this.

You are the much better driver. Get in that Z06 and run some laps. Compare to your tC laps. What's going to be the result?

You are a good driver, despite your car. And probably a good suspension/alignment setup guy too. Not taking that away from you at all. But seriously, you could probably be doing the same thing in a Camry or Matrix.

Are you saying that the tC is totally useless as a performance platform to build from?

Because I can't agree with that.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Are you saying that the tC is totally useless as a performance platform to build from?

Because I can't agree with that.

I just think that you guys interpret each other statements wrong.
I think what he means is tC( stock hp with insane suspension mod) is no where at the league with Z06. It well depend on the driver. If the same driver try on each car on a hot lap, the driver with know the different between the 2 cars.