New Rumor: Subaru Developing Turbo 4 2.0T for BRZ

[jonnyozero3]

Originally Posted by Dimman

BRZ gets 1.6 DIT (shown right beside the first FA20 mockup, BTW), 240ish HP with a shit-ton more torque than it has now.

WRX STI gets a high flow variant of the FA20 DIT, say 350ish HP and 300+ lb-ft. Also will be lighter than current model.

Sibling rivalry solved.

I vote Subaru just gives the FA20 an extra two cylinders and a requisite bump in displacement. I bet a flat NA six would be magical. There's an inch or two of room to scoot the engine back to help with weight distribution, and the extra engine weight penalty should be minor when compared to the potential lbs-per-horsepower improvement. (Disclaimer: I'm no rocket botanist, and my assumption that the weight penalty would be "okay" is just a hopeful assumption).

Plus, keeping the BRZ NA would also keep the cross-shopping confusion down....as was said earlier, Midweight/AWD/Turbo/4-door vs Lightweight/RWD/NA/2+2 Coupe. Perfect complimentary and diverse solution to stacking the model lineup in a marketable fashion. It also lets Subaru be different from Toyota/Scion, who might be going the supercharger FI route (if you put any credence to the previous rumors and hints from Toyota).

Such a BRZ would put the base Cayman (and maybe the S, depending on power) squarely in STI's cross-hairs. For ~half the price.

....one can dream

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by jonnyozero3

I vote Subaru just gives the FA20 an extra two cylinders and a requisite bump in displacement. A flat NA six would be magical in this chassis. There's an inch or two of room to scoot the engine back to help with weight distribution, and the extra engine weight penalty should be minor when compared to the potential lbs-per-horsepower improvement.

Plus, keeping the BRZ NA would also keep the cross-shopping confusion down....as was said earlier, Midweight/AWD/Turbo/4-door vs Lightweight/RWD/NA/2+2 Coupe. Perfect complimentary and diverse solution to stacking the model lineup in a marketable fashion. It also lets Subaru be different from Toyota/Scion, who might be going the supercharger FI route (if you put any credence to the previous rumors and hints from Toyota).

Such a BRZ would put the base Cayman (and maybe the S, depending on power) squarely in STI's cross-hairs. For ~half the price.

....one can dream

My point was they showed an FA16DIT right beside the FA20 when they revealed it. Right beside it. Yet there is NO mention of it when turbo rumours pop up.



The one in the background. 1.6L DI with a Legacy-style turbo mounting setup.

Plus my guess as for the power output of the WRX STI are because it will likely have more power than the turbo Legacy, that is already confirmed with a 300 hp FA20DIT.

This would be the obvious solution to turbo toe-stepping between the BRZ and WRX.

[Dimman]

We could also play a hypothetical math game.

What if the numbers are right but the displacement is wrong. (Because why would the sports car get shittier numbers than the Legacy? Tiny turbo that chokes the motor even more than the Legacy's curve?)

Now if we take it to be 280 HP and 250 lb-ft from a 1.6L DIT, that sounds more exciting. This gives us 175HP/L and ~156 lb-ft/L. Now apply those numbers to a 2.0L motor of higher performance than the existing Legacy one for the WRX STI, 350HP and ~315 lb-ft.

Thoughts?

[jonnyozero3]

Personally, I still vote "no" on that idea until it's shown that it won't wreck the current (excellent) throttle response.

I still think if Subaru turbo'd it, it will be incongruous with their previous marketing spiel/purpose of the car. I file it under "tough sell" considering their current posture with the model.

[Draco-REX]

No one ever learns... You'd think all the speculation before the release of this car would have taught people about "inside sources". Let's see, according to "inside sources" the BRZ Limited was going to be 35K, there was going to be a 300hp turbo model at launch, the car was going to be delayed until 2013, there would only be 600 BRZs total, etc.

Nothing is confirmed unless Subaru announces it, or it's sitting on a plinth at the Tokyo Auto Show as a production model (same thing).

[jonnyozero3]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Nothing is confirmed unless Subaru announces it, or it's sitting on a plinth at the Tokyo Auto Show as a production model (same thing).

Exactly.

Sans any reasonable named source, the most likely answer is "more power" but "no turbo", as that's the only data anyone has provided with a reputable, connected, named source:

"Plus, we want to keep turbocharging separate. It is for models like the WRX STI," said Atake Atoshi (Subaru’s head of global marketing)

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/subaru/...rz-sti-planned

Everything else is idle speculation.

[switchlanez]

^Ah yes, even the head marketing guy said no turbo. When he says this and all the other execs in Toyota/Subaru say this who would you believe: the official announcements or the media with unofficial/unnamed sources?

If the media keeps spouting this rumor it's easy for people to want to believe it is true. But think about the media's motivation... they need readership/subscribers/internet traffic. They will use this tactic and use buzzwords like "credible" or "insider" sources and say "rumor" as a disclaimer so they don't lose credibility. The head admin of this ft86club (Hachiroku) did exactly that and look at the number of pages deep we are in this thread: 14. That's heavy traffic generated on no real news.

[Beyer Subaru]

This just in from a source. "Switchlanez is wrong. STi is now considering a twin turbo flat six engine for the STi variant BRZ that will be released in December (Just in time for ChrismaHannuQwanzaaka!) of 2012 as a 2015 model. It will be capable of warp speed at low altitudes and emit butterflies from it's exhaust."

Hey, it did come from a source. Right?

[jonnyozero3]

I wonder if there will be a "butterfly delete" option for preorders?

[Crossover Auto]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

There are plenty of GDI cars that are also turbocharged. Why would you want or need port injection (or port along with direct injection) on a forced induction application? If anything, I think GDI is better suited for forced induction in the first place.

It's fine for mild modded applications. But for all out extreme HP builds, direct injection has a bottle neck and it has to due with the cam driven high pressure fuel pump and lack of higher flowing injectors. That is why the current hybrid setup is more desirable for tuners and modders looking to extract high hp #s.

[einzlr]

Autoweek is reporting that Subaru is saying they're developing a turbo BRZ. Oct. 29 print edition and here:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...news/121029941

[Admiral Ballsy]

Originally Posted by einzlr

Autoweek is reporting that Subaru is saying they're developing a turbo BRZ.

Yeah, but parse what he says carefully. What Subaru said is, they're developing a turbocharged FA20. Well, no kidding, it's been reported everywhere. It'll be the next WRX engine, for one thing.

Then he says "look for it in the 2014 BRZ"....but he doesn't actually quote Subaru as saying that.

The turbo FA20 as shown in various pictures wouldn't work in the BRZ - turbo packaging is all wrong.

[SkullWorks]

Autoweek even stated that there was no confirmation from Subaru (because they all need a disclaimer) everyone has to report the rumor now, otherwise they look like they aren't paying attention,

As per usual, the uninformed and ignorant are louder than reasonable researched and knowledgeable....

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Autoweek even stated that there was no confirmation from Subaru (because they all need a disclaimer) everyone has to report the rumor now, otherwise they look like they aren't paying attention,

As per usual, the uninformed and ignorant are louder than reasonable researched and knowledgeable....

Thought folks might be interested. So shoot me