BRZ vs S2000 vs Cayman S (my take)

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Pat

Yikes, I can't imagine driving a car with an engine that is "way, way rougher." No thank you.
Thanks for the perspective.

If you ever have the chance, try taking a S2000 up to redline. While the power delivery itself is smooth, you will feel the engine in your seat too.

FWIW, most high revving engines are similar, even when you get into the ultra expensive cars.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Pat

Yikes, I can't imagine driving a car with an engine that is "way, way rougher." No thank you.
Thanks for the perspective.

More exciting, IMO.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

More exciting, IMO.

That's one way of looking at it. I guess by that way of thinking a car accident at highway speeds is also more exciting.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Pat

That's one way of looking at it. I guess by that way of thinking a car accident at highway speeds is also more exciting.

But a "rough" engine isn't inherently dangerous... It's just louder, more coarse, more raw... none of which is necessarily a bad thing in a sports car, IMO.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Pat

That's one way of looking at it. I guess by that way of thinking a car accident at highway speeds is also more exciting.

Oh man, you would absolutely hate racecars, and stripped out "factory tuners" then...

What you perceive to be smooth is partly the balance of the engine, but also how well the manufacturer isolates the passenger cabin from NVH.

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Pat

I'm very surprised to read that, Mike. In my experience the FA20 is one of the least smooth, buzzy engines I've driven. I've driven many cars, many of them very nice. But most of my comparison comes from owning an E28, E30, 986, B5 A4 1.8T and C5 A6 2.8 V6. I don't have nearly as much experience with domestic or Japanese four cylinder cars. Honestly, the unsmooth/buzzy nature of the FA20 is probably the thing I dislike the most about my car.
Am I alone on this?

all those have a ton of stuffs between you and the engine to dampen out the stuff getting to you. AND PORSCHES does not count, they are rear engine & super far away from you by nature, even MR like cayman is super isolated....hell even @ auto cross that thing is quiet as it can get...... and I was in a cayman R with door straps.... ...obviously I was like ".....shit.....really......? this quiet with this much performance? while drooling over the car afterwords..."

Let's just say they are dampened out everywhere & only let you feel "some" of it other then exhaust/intake sound. (which is enough ...afterall it's "sport & luxury" in one car type of thing, you really get what you pay for.)

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by ZDan

C'mon, this is performance driving 101, lesson 1. On the gas => more understeer, off the gas => more oversteer. Power-on oversteer in a 200hp FR-S/BRZ? You'd have to be doing something pretty silly to get that in anything but 1st gear...

Entering a corner off the throttle, at speed, the front of my FR-S pushes. Feeding in throttle definitely tightens my driving line.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Oh man, you would absolutely hate racecars, and stripped out "factory tuners" then...

What you perceive to be smooth is partly the balance of the engine, but also how well the manufacturer isolates the passenger cabin from NVH.

Oh, I understand that. I've driven race cars. They're rough, yes. But they're purpose-built. I'm OK with that. I just wouldn't want that in my DD.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Pat

Oh, I understand that. I've driven race cars. They're rough, yes. But they're purpose-built. I'm OK with that. I just wouldn't want that in my DD.

The irony here is that modern cars are *too* refined for me, and I actually go out of my way to add a little more personality to cars.

That 991 is calling my name... if only it wasn't unobtanium.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The irony here is that modern cars are *too* refined for me, and I actually go out of my way to add a little more personality to cars.

That 991 is calling my name... if only it wasn't unobtanium.

For the most part you and I are on the same page. That's one of the things I love about the BRZ. There's no blind spot monitoring, rear view camera, drive mode settings, etc. I don't want any of that crap. I love simplicity. But simplicity doesn't mean the engine has to be harsh.
I guess in many ways I think modern cars are too refined for me, also. It takes the fun out of driving. But my personal taste is for a smooth engine in addition to a fun driving experience. A smooth engine is one modern nicety that doesn't detract from the experience for me.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That 991 is calling my name... if only it wasn't unobtanium.

The R?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Pat

The R?

Oops, typo.

Yeah, the 911R.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Pat

For the most part you and I are on the same page. That's one of the things I love about the BRZ. There's no blind spot monitoring, rear view camera, drive mode settings, etc. I don't want any of that crap. I love simplicity. But simplicity doesn't mean the engine has to be harsh.
I guess in many ways I think modern cars are too refined for me, also. It takes the fun out of driving. But my personal taste is for a smooth engine in addition to a fun driving experience. A smooth engine is one modern nicety that doesn't detract from the experience for me.

I feel like you would love the E36 M3. It's got great handling, is fairly lightweight and simple by today's standards, but has one of the smoothest engines out there. Early on when I started doing track days, some of my instructors had E36 M3's and they were always fun for ride-alongs.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I feel like you would love the E36 M3. It's got great handling, is fairly lightweight and simple by today's standards, but has one of the smoothest engines out there. Early on when I started doing track days, some of my instructors had E36 M3's and they were always fun for ride-alongs.

It's an S2000 with a much broader torque curve, and struts