Shift knob vs a shift stick?

[DVNARC]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Have fun operating the reverse lockout with that sword handle...


It's the main reason I think long shift knobs are stupid on this car.

I'll let you know how it is but how often do you have to reverse for it be that big of a pain? Let alone reverse quickly. I don't think it will be a problem and I think it compliments the 86 but keep in mind you can easily revert back to stock knob but I'll keep you guys posted when I get it in the mail and give my own little review.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DVNARC

I got the 6 for my 86 I'll let you know how it feels when it arrives in the mail but I think you're overthinking the physical strain like someone said we arnt 10yr old little girls...with this shifter I think the hand will be resting on the handle most of the time and the 10imch would just be stupid on the 86 anyways

Dude, I have been in the occupational health and safety field for 30 years. I am not "over thinking" shit. It wasn't a theory, opinion or something I pulled out of my ass. It is scientific fact. Doesn't matter if you are a 10 year old girl or a 20 year "do you even lift bro" the body mechanics and ergonomics remain the same.
FACT - The higher you go and get out of the neutral positions the more you increase the risk of injury. That does not mean it will happen or will happen right away but 20 years from now when people blow out a shoulder they will blame something else because it couldn't possibly have been those 200,000 time they shifted in a bad position.
The six inch will certainly be better than a 10 or 12 would but you have still increased the risk factors. I have little doubt that you will feel you have no issue with it but that does not mean things are not happening.
The designers are well aware of the science of ergonomics and that is why they build cars to meet the requirements of most of the population. They didn't put the lever and other controls at the locations and heights they are at in now just because they looked pretty there.

[DVNARC]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Dude, I have been in the occupational health and safety field for 30 years. I am not "over thinking" shit. It wasn't a theory, opinion or something I pulled out of my ass. It is scientific fact. Doesn't matter if you are a 10 year old girl or a 20 year "do you even lift bro" the body mechanics and ergonomics remain the same.
FACT - The higher you go and get out of the neutral positions the more you increase the risk of injury. That does not mean it will happen or will happen right away but 20 years from now when people blow out a shoulder they will blame something else because it couldn't possibly have been those 200,000 time they shifted in a bad position.
The six inch will certainly be better than a 10 or 12 would but you have still increased the risk factors. I have little doubt that you will feel you have no issue with it but that does not mean things are not happening.
The designers are well aware of the science of ergonomics and that is why they build cars to meat the requirements of most of the population. They didn't put the lever and other controls at the locations and heights they are at in now just because they looked pretty there.

It's all good man didn't mean to offend you but perhaps I would have to change more of the stick so it's lower?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DVNARC

It's all good man didn't mean to offend you but perhaps I would have to change more of the stick so it's lower?

Change what more? The whole lever? Not sure if you can since the reverse lock is there. If you want the looks but don't care about the height that could work though. Think it would be as awkward as hell to shift anyway.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by DVNARC

I'll let you know how it is but how often do you have to reverse for it be that big of a pain? Let alone reverse quickly. I don't think it will be a problem and I think it compliments the 86 but keep in mind you can easily revert back to stock knob but I'll keep you guys posted when I get it in the mail and give my own little review.

Actually if you take it to the track and say, spin out, it would be useful or even lifesaving to be able to reach reverse quickly.

I think the rally style shifter only works well if it was designed that way (ie.the 2002 hatchback Civic had a high-mounted shifter that worked well)

Not sure how I'd feel about driving a slot machine around anyway :p

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Leverage and shift travel aside let's look at the ergonomics involved. A short shifter keeps your arm lower, the elbow closer to the body and your wrist and shoulder in a reasonably neutral position.
Every inch you raise that contact point on the shifter you raise the arm, force the elbow out, angle the wrist and shoulder.
Try it. Place your arm at shift lever height and position and then lift it 10"s straight up. If you do it right you will feel a pull in your shoulder. Add the highly repetitive nature of shifting and you increase the risk factor by a huge level.
If at work I could punch it up and give a risk rating but I know that it would be at the top of the scale and probably exceeds all OSHA guidelines if it was your job.
Something tells me that in a few years there will be a pile of ricers that will have some pretty sad rotator cuffs and they will have no clue what caused the problems.

I don't get it...you won't be lifting the arm straight up at all, you will be angling up your forearm to a much better near 90 degree with the Humerus in a proper orientation of the Ulna and Radius compared to the too low and more extended stock height. A taller shift knob at level of the wheel center would put the knob closer in respect to the body and in a much more neutrally ergonomic position closer to the body - the elbow doesn't change position outward at all. This is assuming shifting with hand in a position with the thumb more on top like grabbing a vertical door handle and the shifting throw pattern is not changed for the worse. Seat position comes into play too - with lowered and more reclined seating position it becomes more ideal for a taller and closer shifter.

And actually both your hands spend almost all of the time on the steering wheel...so moving them down to the stock shifter will be worse and more stress involved on your body than the shorter and more properly positioned route right next to the wheel.

[DVNARC]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Change what more? The whole lever? Not sure if you can since the reverse lock is there. If you want the looks but don't care about the height that could work though. Think it would be as awkward as hell to shift anyway.

I'm not sure but is there not a way the you could have a reverse lock lower?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DVNARC

I'm not sure but is there not a way the you could have a reverse lock lower?

Don't know. Out of my realm of knowledge.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

I don't get it...you won't be lifting the arm straight up at all, you will be angling up your forearm to a much better near 90 degree with the Humerus in a proper orientation of the Ulna and Radius compared to the too low and more extended stock height. A taller shift knob at level of the wheel center would put the knob closer in respect to the body and in a much more neutrally ergonomic position closer to the body - the elbow doesn't change position outward at all. This is assuming shifting with hand in a position with the thumb more on top like grabbing a vertical door handle and the shifting throw pattern is not changed for the worse. Seat position comes into play too - with lowered and more reclined seating position it becomes more ideal for a taller and closer shifter.

And actually both your hands spend almost all of the time on the steering wheel...so moving them down to the stock shifter will be worse and more stress involved on your body than the shorter and more properly positioned route right next to the wheel.

Ya, I could be picturing it wrong but still think you would be in a much more awkward position. Suppose you could develop a technique that would reduce the strain. Just something for people to keep in mind.

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ya, I could be picturing it wrong but still think you would be in a much more awkward position. Suppose you could develop a technique that would reduce the strain. Just something for people to keep in mind.

Well I'll actually know sometime in the near future as the CAE shifter was ordered a few weeks back and should be here in a few days (B-day present for myself...) Also recently ordered the Perrin engine mounts and transmission support last weekend since they were on sale and it is highly recommended to have either stiffer rubber or fully solid engine and transmission mounts when using the CAE unit.

But from "air" shifting, I'm fairly confident it will be a better shifting position for me. The 4th Gen Camaro with Hurst Competition + shifter was much better positioned than the factory unit... and that is with an aluminum racing seat basically bolted to the floor in the perfect driving position (a good 3+" lower than stock with proper seatback rake for pedal and steering wheel placement.)