Synchros problem?

[vividracing]

Originally Posted by Matt Andrews

ok. you guys are talking about sticking into 1st without a rev match.

1st gear should only be used to get the car moving. Once you're rolling, 2nd gear should be adequate. This goes for all cars, not just the FR-S.

[Matt Andrews]

i guess we are arguing a minor point here if 1st gear is really short on the FR-S, but I don't feel like you guys are speaking from the perspective on an engineer. There are several cars I have driven that with a final drive change, have had very use-able 1st gears on track. And on tight turns, you blip the throttle, put it in first, and drive off the corner. If there is a technical reason not to do that with this transmission, I'd believe it. but I haven't heard one yet. What I've heard is "its really short - you can use 2nd gear"

Not trying to argue for arguing sake. Just looking for an engineering reason for your position.

[Razz]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Don't, Do not, shift into first before the vehicle is completely stopped.

I hope this car doesnt start coming off as a shit bucket because of mistreatment, whether unknowingly or not.

This is only good advise for the street.

Shifting into first for Auto cross or racing is common.

If your car can't handle it, the tranny needs to be fixed

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Matt Andrews

i guess we are arguing a minor point here if 1st gear is really short on the FR-S, but I don't feel like you guys are speaking from the perspective on an engineer. There are several cars I have driven that with a final drive change, have had very use-able 1st gears on track. And on tight turns, you blip the throttle, put it in first, and drive off the corner. If there is a technical reason not to do that with this transmission, I'd believe it. but I haven't heard one yet. What I've heard is "its really short - you can use 2nd gear"

Not trying to argue for arguing sake. Just looking for an engineering reason for your position.

Originally Posted by Razz

This is only good advise for the street.

Shifting into first for Auto cross or racing is common.

If your car can't handle it, the tranny needs to be fixed

I think that there are two different schools of thought here--DDing vs. Autocross/racing. For DDing, no, I wouldn't downshift into first unless at a complete stop. For racing, however, I can see how that might be necessary, as has been said, with a quick throttle blip.

In short: DD, no. Racing, maybe.

[FRSCoupe]

I don't understand why you guys think it is OK to be unable to shift into 1st from 2nd. cars I had always let me shift into 1st while it is still moving, I just don't let the clutch out like it is a downshift because it is jarring, but the point is.. When you drive a low power engine like AE86 you do not lug around 1500 RPM in 2nd gear, you just bog the engine down big time.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by Matt Andrews

Thanks for the heads up.

I've only done it when slow rolling before a stoplight. But I will admit on a tight road course or auto cross in the future I probably would have shifted into first with a heel / toe throttle blip. (i think - I honestly haven't paid too much attention to 1st gear gearing) What is special about this transmission that prevents you from doing this?

Nothing - I do it all the time with no issues. You just need to rev match properly.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally Posted by FRSCoupe

I don't understand why you guys think it is OK to be unable to shift into 1st from 2nd. cars I had always let me shift into 1st while it is still moving, I just don't let the clutch out like it is a downshift because it is jarring, but the point is.. When you drive a low power engine like AE86 you do not lug around 1500 RPM in 2nd gear, you just bog the engine down big time.

I have no issues downshifting from 2-1 at appropriate speeds and revs.

I'm not a pro race driver by any means, but I do have about 22 years driving manuals.

[synchromesh]

When I was driving in a bit of traffic a couple days ago my tranny was making a clunking noise into first and a "crunchy" sound in 2nd and 3rd. I was trying to be as smooth as possible for my passenger while keeping below 3000 rpm.

Today I didnt feel or hear anything as I reved a little higher. I did some heal-toeing a few times to over 5000rpm and it felt great... A little better feel than my previous RSX and much better than my E30 M3. One of the main reasons I bought this car was because of the advertised triplecone syncros in the tranny.

[csaba]

Originally Posted by Matt Andrews

mine has only about 60 miles on it. I have noticed that 1st gear has some resistance when down shifting before completely stopped, but I wouldn't consider it a crunch at all.

Are your issues on upshifts or downshifts?

If you have resistance shifting to 1st before completely stopped that's normal with any car .

[csaba]

Originally Posted by Matt Andrews

Thanks for the heads up.

I've only done it when slow rolling before a stoplight. But I will admit on a tight road course or auto cross in the future I probably would have shifted into first with a heel / toe throttle blip. (i think - I honestly haven't paid too much attention to 1st gear gearing) What is special about this transmission that prevents you from doing this?

The gearing! Other transmissions does the same

[mattles]

1-2-3 should feel a bit 'rough/crunchy' due to those wonderful triple-cone gear synchros. These were chosen to maximize durability on a high-revving, beginners RWD car. You can mercilessly beat the piss out of the first 3 gear changes, and the transmission probably wont mind a bit.

I believe the RX-8 transmission also employs the use of triple-cone synchros for durability, and that transmission feels very similar to ours (thats because it is).

Unfortunately yes, this has the very minute drawback of making the car a bit louder and rougher. Its an inexpensive sports car, guys - compromises were made in certain areas.

[synchromesh]

Originally Posted by eriktherod

I've found second gear to go really, really low which I like because I'm used to that on the Si.

I find accelerating from 2nd while rolling(walking speed) to not be a good thing. Engine makes a funny sound compared to other cars Ive owned. I refuse to ride the clutch rolling in second so Im gonna have to be doing a lot of rev-matching into 1st!

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by mattles

1-2-3 should feel a bit 'rough/crunchy' due to those wonderful triple-cone gear synchros. These were chosen to maximize durability on a high-revving, beginners RWD car. You can mercilessly beat the piss out of the first 3 gear changes, and the transmission probably wont mind a bit.

I believe the RX-8 transmission also employs the use of triple-cone synchros for durability, and that transmission feels very similar to ours (thats because it is).

Unfortunately yes, this has the very minute drawback of making the car a bit louder and rougher. Its an inexpensive sports car, guys - compromises were made in certain areas.

This makes complete sense. Crunchy = bad in my previous cars, so I was going from previous experience.

[brianc]

The only way to smoothly get into 1st from 2nd is to rev match into 1st. That's what I find. Either throttle blip or double clutch.

Try out Amsoil Synchromesh. I know some S2k guys use it in their transmissions to fix synchro problems.