Subaru debuts 3rd gen Boxer

[[es vi: eks]]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Very exciting stuff, Im cant wait to see how it will handle modification. One thing I do not really favor is the plastic intake manifolds they have been using recently, I just dont like seeing part such as that being made of plastic I guess?

I prefer alloy too and I like to polished and shiney lol.
But the plastic is lighter and is completely smooth on the inside so It has an advantage.
Mind you I wonder how it will age under all the heat and etc.

[ft86cbx]

Apparently economy in both displacements is improved by 10 per cent.

[Matador]

Is this an aluminum block?

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by MajorMing

If this is the engine toyota is trying to put into the ft86 it seems like they would have to do some serious tweaking to get to their goal of 200hp out of the 2.0L. The lowly forester only gets 146. The stats don't exactly wow anybody based on the comments on that website.

MajorMing, This is the torque spec for the base Subaru engine, without VVT or DI.

The FT-86 engine is getting DI, VVT, and is going to be "Free Revving."


MatadorRacing_F1, I believe Ichitaka has already said that Subaru's Boxers have been all Aluminum for 30+ years

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

MajorMing, This is the torque spec for the base Subaru engine, without VVT or DI.

The FT-86 engine is getting DI, VVT, and is going to be "Free Revving."


MatadorRacing_F1, I believe Ichitaka has already said that Subaru's Boxers have been all Aluminum for 30+ years

I'm sorry, let me clarify, Aluminum Metal Matrix like the ZZ, GR & UZ ect. The SR20 was Aluminum too, and almost as heavy as the 3S.

[RZNT4R]

just nightmare to work on.

I can't see how that's hard to work on.

Subaru engines are lovely for accessing accessories, and again, the PS pump (why not electric?), AC and alternator are all easy to get to in classic subaru fashion. Even the water pump, is easy to get to from the bottom.

Also, I spy with my little eye, a top mounted filter cartridge, which is always better than a spin-on surrounded by a burning hot manifold.

The rest of the engine looks pretty straight forward.

[Snaps]

^ Think he might mean a nightmare to work on in regards to changing spark plugs and the like - things that are down in the sides of the engine bay.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Snaps

^ Think he might mean a nightmare to work on in regards to changing spark plugs and the like - things that are down in the sides of the engine bay.

Even those are not as hard as anyone who has done them a couple of times could attest to. An engine is rarely difficult to work on, it is more often the lack of space in a given chassis that makes things intensive. I really hope the combination of this small chassis and the engine are as user friendly as imprezas have been.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Even those are not as hard as anyone who has done them a couple of times could attest to. An engine is rarely difficult to work on, it is more often the lack of space in a given chassis that makes things intensive. I really hope the combination of this small chassis and the engine are as user friendly as imprezas have been.

The problem would be the mounting of the engine in this particular application, and I would like to believe the poster was referring to difficulty to maneuver in limited space, rather than a knock against the engine itself, no need to get your panties in a bunch.

[Dimman]

The displacement, bore and stroke have all been increased, and it will be available with four cylinders in 2.0- and 2.5-liter displacements.

Am I the only one that noticed this? Amazing engineering going on there...





(Unless its like the difference between Honda's B18B and B18C, both 1.8L but slightly different cc numbers...)

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Am I the only one that noticed this? Amazing engineering going on there...





(Unless its like the difference between Honda's B18B and B18C, both 1.8L but slightly different cc numbers...)

I too went wtf when I posted the article, but I passed it off as a brain fart by the editor

[cyde01]

http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/contents/pdf_en_60853.pdf

apparently these engines are going to be called the fb series. compared to the ej20 which is very over bore (92mm x 75mm) the fb20 is gonna be long stroke (84mm x 90mm). fb25 is gonna be slightly over bore (94mm x 90mm). valve angle has been narrowed from 41 degrees to 27 degrees. seems like they are going for midrange torque and dd usability as opposed to rev happy and sports oriented. the fb has a lot of other advantages over the ej like variable valve timing on both in and ex, lighter internals and lower friction everywhere, but i wonder if some enthusiasts might actually prefer the ej over the fb for performance applications? i guess we'll only know the answer once cars with the engine actually start hitting the streets.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by cyde01

http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/contents/pdf_en_60853.pdf

apparently these engines are going to be called the fb series. compared to the ej20 which is very over bore (92mm x 75mm) the fb20 is gonna be long stroke (84mm x 90mm). fb20 is gonna be slightly over bore (94mm x 90mm). valve angle has been narrowed from 41 degrees to 27 degrees. seems like they are going for midrange torque and dd usability as opposed to rev happy and sports oriented. the fb has a lot of other advantages over the ej like variable valve timing on both in and ex, lighter internals and lower friction everywhere, but i wonder if some enthusiasts might actually prefer the ej over the fb for performance applications? i guess we'll only know the answer once cars with the engine actually start hitting the streets.

Oversquare is generally thought to be better for high-revving motors, but I'm not sure if that's high by production standards or by race motor standards. If they want it to rev I don't think it will be that big of an issue.

For example look at the Honda B series (VTEC ones). All known to rev like crazy (8000rpm-ish redlines) but the B16 is slightly oversquare and the B18 is undersquare. In these cases it is probably airflow and valvetrain stability that has a greater significance than loads on the rods.

The narrower valve angle (if the ports are shaped to take advantage of it) is the 'new' performance direction (bikes have been going that way for a while). It allows bigger valves and more lift/overlap with less risk of smacking into pistons, as well as a straighter, smoother path for airflow.

Lighter internals are generally better for stock cars (less rotational mass/inertia), worse for high performance as there is generally a strength loss. I'm pretty sure the days of over-built rods are long-gone...

Edit: Just read through more thoroughly. Max output for the 2.0L will be 109kW which is 146 bhp if I converted properly. Apparently this is the same as other markets EJ20 NA, and they went for emissions and economy gains. If this is going to be the base engine for this car it better weigh in at no more than 2300 lbs.

Let's hope Toyota/Yamaha can spice this up. A lot.

[cyde01]

the fb series is said to eventually replace all ej series motors in subaru's lineup, so it's a given that aside from the 140hp version, there will be other higher output versions as well. we already know that toyota is designing the heads, so i think it's safe to assume that if the ft-86 comes with the fb20, it will not be the base 140hp version. as far as how much performance potential is in this engine? i think that's anybody's guess at this point. the n/a ej20 was also 140hp but i think there was a n/a version in japan that did 190hp..

here's an interesting blog post about the engine if you can read japanese.

http://golf4.blog65.fc2.com/blog-entry-201.html

based on the pics it does look like the intake port has a less straight, more curved path due to the narrow angle, but i'm no airflow dynamics expert so what do i know?

the engine's gonna be a lot wider than the ej so the engine bay's gonna have to be pretty wide to fit d-4s and anything else toyota builds into the heads. the plus side will be that while the engine is wider it will be shorter front to back, so it will possible to place it even further behind the front wheels.