The Death of the Manual Transmission

[DarkSunrise]

Pick the right tool for the job. If you're primarily going to use your car to sit through 2-3 hrs. of mindless traffic, then buy an automatic. And get a car that's soft and comfy, with a good stereo and nice interior. If you're going to be at the track or on open roads, buy a manual and get a sports car. And if you can only afford one car that will double as your daily-driver and track/fun car, then don't complain when it isn't good at one thing or another. Every car is a bag of compromises.

I love manuals as much as anyone, but if I know I'm going to be sitting in heavy traffic on a particular day, I'll likely take the GTI with its dual-clutch.

And on a more general note, if people want car manufacturers to keep making manuals, they need to buy more manuals. It's as simple as that. Car manufacturers aren't there to make people happy, they're there to make money. So to all the people clamoring to "save the manuals", put your money where your mouth is.

/endrant

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by robwbright

In comparing to the Miata he notes an interesting point:

"If the Sciobaru weighed the same as the Miata, it would smoke the Miata. And the fact is, the Sciobaru ought to weigh less than the Miata – because it (the Sciobaru) is a hardtop coupe and hardtops usually weigh less than convertibles – because they don’t need the extra body reinforcement to make up for the loss of roof structure.

Mazda’s ace in the hole, despite the Miata being an older design (and arguably, a less sexy design) is that it’s – somehow, miraculously – not a fatty.

So how come the Sciobaru is (for what it is)? My guess is it was designed to anticipate the next round of government crashworthiness standards – which usually means more mass (and so, more weight).

The current Miata may only be a lightweight for now. It will be interesting to see whether the next Miata porks out, too."

In order to meet the regulations but keep weight less than the MX5, subaru would have to use advanced materials and alloys that would drive the cost through the roof (think NSX-level pricing) and price this car right out of the target market.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

In order to meet the regulations but keep weight less than the MX5, subaru would have to use advanced materials and alloys that would drive the cost through the roof (think NSX-level pricing) and price this car right out of the target market.

Price it right out of that market, but panty sales would sky rocket due to all of em droppin!

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Some car makers are giving the venerable stick shift a better fighting chance by adding rev-matching to their manuals (370Z, C7, MINI, M3/M4, etc) - something I'd love to see on the '16 twins refresh and the new ND.

I hate that feature - it's removing part of the manualness from the manual transmission. If the car is doing the rev matching for me, it might as well be a double clutch.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Price it right out of that market, but panty sales would sky rocket due to all of em droppin!

Which drives the cost up even more, b/c we know how expensive the female of the species makes things

Originally Posted by chrisl

I hate that feature - it's removing part of the manualness from the manual transmission. If the car is doing the rev matching for me, it might as well be a double clutch.

It also doesn't rev match very well from what I'm told. That is, wrt the Z370.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Dooley

'Manual' means the same it has always been. Technology will always eventually catch up especially in the age of computers. A perfect shift everytime has already been achieved. There isn't much more needed in that sense.

Anything "Manual" will be upgraded for "Automated". Robots replace workers, pop-machines replaced soda shops, Engines replaced horses. It's a cycle. Those that stick with manuals will have a pretty high demand 30+ years from now when people who know how to work on a clutch become more and more obsolete.

I've yet to drive an auto that can read my mind. Until that happens automatics will continue shifting at the wrong time. That's not that big of a deal, unless you're holding a corner line with the throttle and the transmission breaks torque for a shift. In that case, it can mean kissing the wall in a brand new car with the sales person in the passenger seat. Just ask me how I know. And that was a VW, often hailed as one of the best dual clutch transmissions on the market. If that was an example of the best, they can keep it.

And then there's driving in winter conditions. It'll be a very long time before an automatic transmission can master that.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I hate that feature - it's removing part of the manualness from the manual transmission. If the car is doing the rev matching for me, it might as well be a double clutch.

This view always cracks me up - in every single one of these cars your use of rev-matching is optional -- if you don't want to use it, don't use it and heel-toe away.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

It also doesn't rev match very well from what I'm told. That is, wrt the Z370.

Every 370Z review I have read (and there have been plenty) raved about it. As have owners, here and elsewhere.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

This view always cracks me up - in every single one of these cars your use of rev-matching is optional -- if you don't want to use it, don't use it and heel-toe away.

That option is perfectly fine with me, as long as it can be easily disabled. Preferably permanently - if it has to be turned off every time you start the car, that could get annoying.

[Jegan_V]

Originally Posted by chrisl

That option is perfectly fine with me, as long as it can be easily disabled. Preferably permanently - if it has to be turned off every time you start the car, that could get annoying.

From what I've read about the 370Z, synchro rev matching can be turned off with a switch. When its off, it won't ever turn on until you switch it back on. That said, I don't think synchro rev matching like on the 370Z is going to help with the learning curve of a manual transmission.

There's a lot of fear unfortunately inserted to the public domain that driving a manual badly will result in broken gearbox, burnt clutch and a rough jerky drive. What doesn't seem to be in the realm of public knowledge is that modern cars with manuals were designed knowing their owners will stall it at some point or perhaps even several times if they're a beginner. My Impreza survived my early lousy beginning where it seemed like in my first week I had a good day if I didn't stall it. So strong that car was that even when selling it, my buyer wouldn't know any better that I used it as my starter manual car even at an advanced age for the car.

Owning the FRS now...I can safely say these newer cars are even easier to drive than my Impreza was. I don't have a 1st gear lock out, it seems reverse is synchronized, and the forgiveness in the clutch engagement point is relatively high. However, even with these improvements, I don't see them convincing a newbie who's never driven a manual or someone's significant other who's never driven one to convert. There has to be a will to want to drive a manual, without that will the conversion process from AT to MT is pretty much impossible.