Dealer says Brz Sti is turboed

[DSOmegaX]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

I couldn't get through that whole article, so maybe my following comment is wrong.

But, that sounds like a hear say piece. There was just a post on this forum claiming the twins have had "disappointing" sales. The fact is, in it's short existence, it has outsold the miata year for year. How does that equate to poor sales?

Because what is considered a "success" for a product is defined by more than just the sales number. Its weighed against the overall cost that it took to develop the product, the cost to make each car (and not just materials, but labor, facilities, services, etc.), and probably the most important indicator: what the shareholders define profitability for the vehicle. It may have sold more units than the Miata, but that's because Mazda sets the sales expectations for that car pretty low, and they've been building the car for so long that ratio between profit and cost is high.

If I sold a product for $31 but it costs me $30 for every unit sold, I better damn well sell a lot if I want to claim its profitable. It's the same boat with Toyota/Subaru right now.

[PBM317]

Salesperson probably is just thinking of the new WRX STI, jeez. The BRZ is nowhere near a volume seller for these people and is pretty much back-of-mind for nearly all Subaru sales people I would imagine.

[Kotu100]

Called Clay back and spoke to the same sales person who forwrded me to someone from corporate who confirmed that not only is the BRZ STi not turboed, but we're not even getting it here in the states...
Salesperson is finding me a limited BRZ 6mt to test drive.
Now i just gotta convince myself that the balance and feel of the car will be enough to keep me happy till power mods.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Kotu100

Saleslady at Clay Subaru told me that the BRZ STI will be available in a couple of months for order and it comes factory with a turbocharger is there any truth to this?
I insisted that it did not come with a turbocharger but she was very persistent that it did and that I was misinformed.
So is she right, or like a typical salesperson and not know shit about the product they're selling?

Salesperson at dealership doesn't know jack shit.

Now, I have a Nigerian prince friend and he's trying to unlock ~$20million in assets but needs stateside help. He'll give you a 35% cut if you send him $10K USD required for several fees over there.

[Kotu100]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Salesperson at dealership doesn't know jack shit.

Now, I have a Nigerian prince friend and he's trying to unlock ~$20million in assets but needs stateside help. He'll give you a 35% cut if you send him $10K USD required for several fees over there.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Salesperson at dealership doesn't know jack shit.

Now, I have a Nigerian prince friend and he's trying to unlock ~$20million in assets but needs stateside help. He'll give you a 35% cut if you send him $10K USD required for several fees over there.

Hey I think I know that guy!

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

Because what is considered a "success" for a product is defined by more than just the sales number. Its weighed against the overall cost that it took to develop the product, the cost to make each car (and not just materials, but labor, facilities, services, etc.), and probably the most important indicator: what the shareholders define profitability for the vehicle. It may have sold more units than the Miata, but that's because Mazda sets the sales expectations for that car pretty low, and they've been building the car for so long that ratio between profit and cost is high.

If I sold a product for $31 but it costs me $30 for every unit sold, I better damn well sell a lot if I want to claim its profitable. It's the same boat with Toyota/Subaru right now.

I am no businessman so correct me if I am wrong. There is a certain market for "specialized/sports/niche" vehicles. I feel certain the educated people developing this car understood that. The miata is the most affordable, RWD, sports care available. Disregarding that, it was a known fact prototypes of our car were routinely seen bench-marking against caymans.

hmmm.....

I don't think the engineers and businessman are stupid. I think they knew if they could produce a vehicle with as close as possible Porsche handling AND near miata price point and power, they would had an EASY success.

Seems like they have achieved that, what do you think?

[DSOmegaX]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

I am no businessman so correct me if I am wrong. There is a certain market for "specialized/sports/niche" vehicles. I feel certain the educated people developing this car understood that. The miata is the most affordable, RWD, sports care available. Disregarding that, it was a known fact prototypes of our car were routinely seen bench-marking against caymans.

hmmm.....

I don't think the engineers and businessman are stupid. I think they knew if they could produce a vehicle with as close as possible Porsche handling AND near miata price point and power, they would had an EASY success.

Seems like they have achieved that, what do you think?

I think were talking about two different definitions for success. From a product standpoint, I completely agree that it was a success. In fact, to develop a rather practical, RWD coupe with a price point around $25k is an extremely monumental task. However, what I'm discussing, and what the article is referring to, is financial success. One does not always translate to the other. It sounds like despite selling "well" in numbers, the overall profit to cost of each car is not high enough for the amount they've sold to recoup all of the investment they put into it.

Think about it this way, why does Toyota set sells expectations about 3x that of Subaru? Because Toyota essentially bankrolled the entire project, from conception to R&D to production development. They also have a far larger logistics cost to rebrand their cars from the factory and because of additional import/export costs as they utilize Subaru for actual production. In contrast, Subaru essentially only has manufacturing to consider, and since they already available factories, labor, and parts, it costs them a fraction of what Toyota had to invest in developing this vehicle. Thus, Toyota is forced to sell a significantly more vehicles to recoup that cost. In addition, to satisfy their stakeholders, they need to prove that the car is profitable enough that they can use that profit to further invest in R&D for future sports cars (i.e. FT-1). This is how sells expectations are set. It doesn't matter how many vehicles they sell in comparison to their competitors if they can't hit their own expectations to make up all the money they've "lost" in getting their car to market.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Kotu100

Saleslady at Clay Subaru told me that the BRZ STI will be available in a couple of months for order and it comes factory with a turbocharger is there any truth to this?
I insisted that it did not come with a turbocharger but she was very persistent that it did and that I was misinformed.
So is she right, or like a typical salesperson and not know shit about the product they're selling?

Salesman doesn't know what he's talking about. He's probably thinking of the new WRX, which has the FA20DIT motor with (obviously) turbo.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Kotu100

Called Clay back and spoke to the same sales person who forwrded me to someone from corporate who confirmed that not only is the BRZ STi not turboed, but we're not even getting it here in the states...
Salesperson is finding me a limited BRZ 6mt to test drive.
Now i just gotta convince myself that the balance and feel of the car will be enough to keep me happy till power mods.

Not much convincing will be needed. Seriously. I came from an STI into a BRZ and the fun factor lept off the charts, even with the drop in power and turbo.

[2pt5RS]

This is usually how it goes when I go into a dealership...or talk to just about any sales person ever.

[HeubergerMotors]

Since I was a top seller I got asked what the BRZ needed. I said, MORE POWER! However, I did ask if they would turbocharge the BRZ and it doesn't sound like it will happen due to what others said (Toyota) low expectation of sales (From what I heard), but also the price market. It's an affordable fun RWD car. I think adding a turbo may bump it higher in the 370'z realm.........

[Creole]

This is crazy, I was speaking with a guy today about this.

The Subaru dealership had told him the brz HAD a turbo charger, so when he came to look at the frs, he said "I'm assuming you don't know much about these cars, the brz is turbo charged"

I told him to research the cars he is looking at because the brz does NOT have a turbo charger. He wanted to go back and forth with me until I pulled it up on the computer. He apologized for saying what he said, and left, he seemed mad that I told him they didn't have one.


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[Kotu100]

Clint, you might like to know she also said there NO dealer in the US that had any BRZ's on the lot...
Bahahaha
I almost brought up the fact that u have 50+ sitting there but decided not to.

I'm seriously thinking of flying out to Colorado to buy from you and driving it home to Boston.